CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I was thinking the other day that, with anime's popularity growing every single day, it's no doubt that V/A (Voice Actors) are becoming celebrities in their own rights! What I want to know is, are V/A celebrities (People we know off the bat like Johnny Young Bosch or Vic Mignogna) more popular than big screen celebs like Tom Cruise or Ben Affleck (SP?).

Let's put it to the vote!

Movie stars, definitely. Though both movies and anime are international, anime is more of a fringe phenomenon in countries in Japan whereas the rest of the world is getting fed up with the crap Hollywood pumps out...

Personally? I'd take Vic over Tom Cruise any day. But Ingy's right, we're such a niche market that movie stars hold all the influence you think they do, and more.

JYB over Tom Cruise anyday, no question.

Ingemar wrote:Movie stars, definitely. Though both movies and anime are international, anime is more of a fringe phenomenon in countries in Japan whereas the rest of the world is getting fed up with the crap Hollywood pumps out...

Great point. The world is getting so caught up in stupidities like Paris Hilton and "Tomcat" (Lets be honest, the kid wasn't that cute. ) we forget that some of the greatest actors are those who use their voices to project their emotion instead of using their bodies.

Looks like the V/A is owning the movie star 2 to 1...Interesting!

How about an option for Seiyuus?

some of us don't do dubs xD

ducheval wrote:How about an option for Seiyuus?

some of us don't do dubs xD

Isn't seiyuu just the Japanese word for... voice actors? xD;

To contribute to teh topic, personally I like voice actors more. But popularity in general, movie actors would probably win that.

Kokoro Daisuke wrote:Personally? I'd take Vic over Tom Cruise any day. But Ingy's right, we're such a niche market that movie stars hold all the influence you think they do, and more.

Agreed. While I, personally, would choose JYB over Tom Cruise any day of the week, I somehow get the feeling that the mass majority of Americans would choose Tom Cruise over "that guy that was a Power Ranger one time." Sad, but true. XD;

VAs generally refer to americans where Seiyuu refers to japanese. Noone is quite sure where Mari Iijima falls these days.

V/A deffinately have a harder time then moives stars. These everything that hollywood is garbage with garbage actors anyway. As a test name the last 3 moives you watch that aren't anime and was there any real purpose behind them? Probably not.

Wait... is the question whether _we_ (anime fans) like JYB better than TC? Or whether we think JYB is more popular _generally_ than Tom Cruise?

The answer to the second question would have to be 'duh', I think. {s}

Let's make it more practical: would we rather have TC do voice acting in an anime role (which he _has_ in fact done before, so there's a point of comparison), or JYB?

(I voted JYB in that, though I do think Cruise can be a decent enough actor.)

[quote="Radical Dreamer"]Agreed. While I, personally, would choose JYB over Tom Cruise any day of the week, I somehow get the feeling that the mass majority of Americans would choose Tom Cruise over "that guy that was a Power Ranger one time." Sad, but true. XD]
Yeah, I hear ya. Tom Cruise would get more popularity points because he made movies that stand the test of time (Not my own opinion--Never saw any of his movies) where as JYB (on camera) was part of a passing fad with Power Rangers so, unfourtnately, he's been typecast as a Power Ranger.

OFF camera, in front of a mic, however, he's had a GREAT career, and been part of more of a lasting talent with anime V/O jobs.

To sum it up:
Adam may be Gone, but Vash will last a lifetime!


Oh, and BTW, I used the two actors above to represent their genre's JYB for Voice Actors (Including Japanese V/A's) and Tom Cruise for Movie Actors.

Noley wrote:V/A deffinately have a harder time then moives stars. These everything that hollywood is garbage with garbage actors anyway. As a test name the last 3 moives you watch that aren't anime and was there any real purpose behind them? Probably not.

Eh, I disagree. It is possible for Americans to make good movies, too. XD; Take The Patriot, for example. Fantastic film, starring Mel Gibson and Heath Ledger. Or, The Lord of the Rings trilogy. Don't try to tell me there's no real meaning behind those. XD Big Fish is another excellent film revolving around the theme of father/son relationships. The Count of Monte Cristo is another spectacular movie, full of symbolism. It's also got an excellent storyline.

I could sit here all day and name classic (or recent) American movies that have plenty of meaning behind them. But do tell, what's the purpose behind FLCL? Or Super GALS!, for that matter? Or maybe you'd rather tell me what the real purpose is behind the most trash-filled, fanservicey anime you can think of? See, any entertainment can be found wanting in quality or cleanliness. And the fact that anime is Japanese doesn't exempt it from these things. Sure, there're plenty of incredible anime that have wonderful plots, characters, and content, but there are just as many American movies that do as well. We live in a fallen world, and that can make some of what comes out of Japan just as trashy as what comes out of Hollywood sometimes.

[quote="Radical Dreamer"]Eh, I disagree. It is possible for Americans to make good movies, too. XD]
And, of course, let's not forget "Shindlers List", "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner", "Raisin in the Sun" "Star Trek: II, IV, VI, and First Contact" (Even Numbered movies, of course!) among many other movies. Americans have made some GREAT films over the years.

Noley wrote:V/A deffinately have a harder time then moives stars. These everything that hollywood is garbage with garbage actors anyway. As a test name the last 3 moives you watch that aren't anime and was there any real purpose behind them? Probably not.

Uhm... no... all a voice actor does is 1) Talk, 2) Make sure the sound matches the lips 3)Make emotion match.

A ACTOR must move correctly. Have correct facial expressions (There are a VAST variety of real life facial expressions compared to drawings) Must speak clearly. Must move according to the script, must be, act, and seem like the character. How the character LOOKS is also how the character must be. There is no animated face in front of an actor that has a voice that doesn't match the physical appearance. It's not just their voice that matters. It's their ENTIRE Physique.

The overglorification of japan and anime-related things is just sickening and blind faith. American cinema was what REVOLUTIONIZED film making today. True the first movie was french (Voyage to the Moon) but ever seen the great train robbery? The first american film. EDISON Was the inventor of the predecessor of the movie camera. Remember, it was AMERICA that revolutionized the film industry. It was AMERICA that was the first to make animated cartoons.

Ever seen Citizen Kane? That movie pretty much revolutionized a lot, a lot of the techniques used in current movies derived from Orsen Well's Citizen Kane. An extraordinary film. I highly recommend it.

And to challenge you. I'll name a whole bunch of movies that had a purpose. Infact, major purposes.
-Taegukgi: The Brotherhood of War
-Silmido
-Citizen Kane
-Most of Alfred Hitchcocks's films.
-Saving Private Ryan
-A Bittersweet Life
-Fight Club
-Pulp Fiction
-Shawshank Redemption
-Battle Royale
-A lot of Kitano's Films
-A lot of Akira Kurosawa's Films
-Oldboy
-Joint Security Area (MAJOR "Purposes")
-The StarWars trilogy.
-Lord of the Rings
-1990 Film called "Awakenings" one of my favorites
-Memento
-The Godfather Trilogy

And thats just to mention some. To say that anime is better than movies and voice actors are cooler than actors is a matter of subjective opinion. But to say that movies are meaningless and are inferior to anime production-wise and meaning-wise, you are dead wrong. All the movies I mentioned have MUCH more meaning than like... Naruto or Inuyasha or Full Metal Alchemist. It has much more meaning and purpose than Futakoi or FLCL, Excel Saga, Evangelion, or Kenshin.

You are just dead wrong. You need to go find some better movies to watch. If you want me to explain these "purposes" for these movies. I'll be more than happy to compile a list of explanations and "purposes" for each of the said titles.

Oh. And I perfer my favorite actors (Choi Min-Sik, Song Kang-ho, Robin Williams, Robert DeNiro, Al Pachino, Jang Dong-Gun, Harrison Ford, Mark Hamil, etc) over ANY of my favorite voice actors. (American or not)

There are more movies I've seen that has a purpose than anime with a purpose (And I watch a LOT of anime)

Actually the majority of VAs probably have some background in live action as well as animation.Think of the fact that Johnny Yong Bosch started out as a Power Ranger,for example.Also plenty of movie stars have done voice acting for the
American versions of anime movies like Kiki's Delivery Service and Howl's Moving
Castle.So in that extent it is rather comparing apples to oranges.
Now if the question were to be changed to something like who would do a better job in an animated feature VA or Movie Star the answer would have to be VA because that is what they do for a living.

mitsuki lover wrote:Actually the majority of VAs probably have some background in live action as well as animation.Think of the fact that Johnny Yong Bosch started out as a Power Ranger,for example.Also plenty of movie stars have done voice acting for the American versions of anime movies like Kiki's Delivery Service and Howl's Moving Castle.

Exactally. Did you know Patrick Stewart was in Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind and Steamboy? There's an example for you.

Dude, Patrick Stewart was in Nausicaa? That settles it, he definitely wins.

And I agree that while recent cinema has left much to be desired, there are still plenty of powerful, thought provoking movies that come from Hollywood and from around the world. Like any other medium, it would be foolish to say "X is better than Y" because within a single artistic medium, there are so many subdivisions and works that should be accounted for on a case by case basis, not via a blanket statement.

Also, voice acting and acting on screen are two very different monsters. Yes, while they both rely very heavily on tone of voice, inflection, volume, etc. there are also talents that need to be used in one field exclusively. Acting on stage or on screen also requires one to know how to move, where to look, what expressions to make. While VAs in the US have to gauge emotion based on a script and clips, and have to know how to make their voice mesh with the other cast members who may not necessarily be present while they are recording. =3

Also, I feel I should point out that VAs probably realize their jobs will never be as glitzy as an on-screen actor. :3

mitsuki lover wrote:Actually the majority of VAs probably have some background in live action as well as animation.Think of the fact that Johnny Yong Bosch started out as a Power Ranger,for example.

Interesting note for us Trekkers: Richard Ian Cox, before he got the role of our favorite barefoot, red kimono clad, half and half Inuyasha, was actually Kyril Finn on an episode of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" called "The High Ground".

Kokoro Daisuke wrote:Also, I feel I should point out that VAs probably realize their jobs will never be as glitzy as an on-screen actor. :3

Yeah, sadly not many (if any) anime V/A's show up on the red carpet...not that we would really know what they look like outside the recording booth, anyway.

Kokoro Daisuke wrote:Also, I feel I should point out that VAs probably realize their jobs will never be as glitzy as an on-screen actor. :3

To also mention. I'm sure they're happy with their jobs.

Everyone should look up what Crispin Freeman has on his official website concerning voice acting before this goes any further.The one thing he mentions that is important in this case is that to be a voice actor one has to first and foremost be an ACTOR.
Like any other actor VAs have to go through the regular process of auditioning
to get roles,etc.

mitsuki lover wrote:Everyone should look up what Crispin Freeman has on his official website concerning voice acting before this goes any further.The one thing he mentions that is important in this case is that to be a voice actor one has to first and foremost be an ACTOR.
Like any other actor VAs have to go through the regular process of auditioning
to get roles,etc.

Right. But remember. A Voiceactor has a set amount of requirements that are different than an actor. I'd assume an actor is more proficient in their role than a voice actor is. And vice versa. Though I assume an actor>>voice actor would be easier than a voice actor>>actor namely because there are many actors that also voice act. But not as many voice actors that act.

Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. O.o; There are bad actors in both on screen/stage acting AND voice acting. It happens. But to say "oh, actors who are in movies are better than voice actors, because they have to do more" is wrong, I think. On-screen, and on stage acting, is focused on your body language more than your voice, I'd say. Voice acting, however, is COMPLETELY focused on your voice. You can be a great actor on stage, but be horrible voice actor, and vice-versa. Haven't you ever watched animated movies with 'celebrity' stars where the performances completely fell flat? It happens. All the time! I don't think voice actors are better than their movie-star counterparts, but I certainly wouldn't say that they're worse either. It's just different, you can't compare them.

That being said, I DO prefer voice actors. Partially because I love animation, but also...the way our current Hollywood culture is, it REALLY messes some stars up. XD Tom Cruise is one example, but there's others, too. I'm not saying voice actors never get in trouble, but I think our current movie and TV star culture makes it REALLY hard to keep a level head in Hollywood (although some stars do OK, I'm not saying they're ALL screwed up like that). Voice Actors aren't doing it for fame as much as...well...a paycheck! And a lot of them obviously genuinely love their jobs. (Well, you'd almost have to--it's so hard to get a break in voice acting these days, and the pay is really, not at all good, so you'd have to love it to have the motivation to even...well...DO it XD). If you asked me if I like Vic Migogna or Elijah Wood better, I wouldn't be able to say. Both are excellent actors, and I wouldn't say one is better than the other, particularly just because of what type of acting they do.

(And why call Suri unattractive just because her parents are a little crazy?? Eru help us if we're suddenly undesirable because our parents are a little weird! I think she's beautiful--it's just a shame she's probably going to be really, really messed up.)

Oh, and SmartyPants...these days, Mark Hamil does more voice acting than live action, actually. XD He was The Joker in Batman the animated series, has been in a few dubs of Miyazaki's anime, is the villian on Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go! (that is the most unnessisarily long name for a cartoon EVER, by the way), etc etc. So to say that you greatly prefer on-screen actors and use Mark Hamil as an example is a biiiiit odd.

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:(And why call Suri unattractive just because her parents are a little crazy?? Eru help us if we're suddenly undesirable because our parents are a little weird! I think she's beautiful--it's just a shame she's probably going to be really, really messed up.)

Hey! I just call it as I see it! It's just my own personal opinion that little Suri looks like an alien.

Ahem! Anyway, it looks as though the V/A is running away with the vote! Once again, please keep in mind that the people I listed above are just representative of their respective talents--I'm NOT comparing JYB to Tom Cruise....(Even if I was, it would be no contest!)

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. O.o]
Show me where I mentioned that all voice actors were inferior to actors. I'm saying an actor's job is generally harder than a voice actors. I won't believe you for a second that actors don't need to focus on their voice as much as a voice-actor. A bad voice can totally screw up an actors role.

Partially because I love animation, but also...the way our current Hollywood culture is, it REALLY messes some stars up. XD Tom Cruise is one example, but there's others, too.

I think you're just naming some bad actors. Why do people always tend to associate an "actor" with some hot-shot big celebrity that intellectual people don't care about? To me a good actor is NOT Tom Cruise. A good actor to me is Choi Min-Sik (In fact, nearly every korean movie I've seen has amazing actors. And while you may think that is biased. I've had some of my non-asian friends watch some korean movies. And they all tend to agree with me. Watch JSA, Friend, Peppermint Candy, Taegukgi, Oldboy, Lady Vengeance, or Memories of Murder and you'll see why) Tom Hanks, Harrison Ford, Tony Shaloub, Robert Deniro, Al Pachino, (And I guess Charlie Chaplin as well) etc etc. My favorite actor might as well be Song Kang-ho. Because everytime he is on screen. You forget who he really is. He plays his character so well you end up believing that is his true nature. It's not "Oh it's Song Kang-ho" anymore, it's "Oh It's Seargent Oh" or "Oh It's Detective Park" Robert DeNiro is the same. You watch "Awakenings", and you will totally forget that it's Robert DeNiro. One of the main characters in "Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance" was supposed to be deaf and mute. So he used a form of sign language and stuff. When he'd work around heavy and loud machinery, he wouldn't wear earplugs like the other workers. If I didn't know any better. I would say he was mute and deaf in real life.

I don't care much for Tom Cruise or Ben Affleck or Brad Pitt.

Oh, and SmartyPants...these days, Mark Hamil does more voice acting than live action, actually. XD He was The Joker in Batman the animated series, has been in a few dubs of Miyazaki's anime, is the villian on Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go! (that is the most unnessisarily long name for a cartoon EVER, by the way), etc etc. So to say that you greatly prefer on-screen actors and use Mark Hamil as an example is a biiiiit odd.

Yes I know that. He does a lot of animated shows and videogames. Which proves my point that a good actor can also become a good voice actor. But you don't see many good voice actors becomming actors.

Anyway. I have a much higher appreciation for an amazing actor over an amazing voice actor. Simply because to be a good actor is much harder than being a good voice actor. Not only must they sound perfect. They must act perfectly, move perfectly, and look perfect with their character. Every single aspect of the person becomes the character. In a case with a good movie. The actor IS the character. While a voice actor only becomes the character by imagination, and by only limited aspects. (Which isn't bad, but not as powerful as an amazing actor.)

KhakiBlueSocks wrote:Ahem! Anyway, it looks as though the V/A is running away with the vote! Once again, please keep in mind that the people I listed above are just representative of their respective talents--I'm NOT comparing JYB to Tom Cruise....(Even if I was, it would be no contest!)

The way I see it. They majority of the people mistook the poll and thought it asked who they perferred more. Though I could be wrong.

Sorry, but I still have to disagree. I don't think that voice acting is easier than screen or stage acting. (Or that screen is harder than stage, etc etc). They're all just different forms of acting. To me it'd be like saying "writing a novel is harder than writing a non-fiction book". They're just different.

But my Tom Cruise thing WASN'T about bad actors. I was talking about how Hollywood culture tends to screw up actors in their PERSONAL lives. Another example (of an actor I love) is Haley Joel Osmond. Great actor. Unfortunatnely, he also recently got arrested for drunk driving. (And he's 18, so legally he can't even drink yet.) My point had nothing to do with saying screen actors ACTED worse than others.

Also, most of the actors mentioned as "good voice actors" in this thread ALSO do on-screen or stage acting as well. Just listen to the ADV voice actor commentaries, for example--a lot of times they'll mention being in a stage production with another voice actor.

So to summerize what I'm trying to say:
On-screen actors talent = voice actor talent
On-screen actors antics (generally) < voice actor antics.

IE, I think you'll find greats actors in both groups, and the reason I prefer voice actors is simply because I'm disenchanted with the Hollywood culture so many 'mainstream' actors have been sucked into. (Well, that and I watch more animation in general.)

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:Sorry, but I still have to disagree. I don't think that voice acting is easier than screen or stage acting.

Can you explain why? To me it seems less demanding. I know for a fact that acting is hard. I've been in a number of play productions myself. And speaking is a major role. (No less than VAing) and so is blocking. (Movement) Let me tell you that Projection is key. Your voice and emotion must sound equal to your character's current condition. And a little screw up can and will destroy everything.

But my Tom Cruise thing WASN'T about bad actors. I was talking about how Hollywood culture tends to screw up actors in their PERSONAL lives. Another example (of an actor I love) is Haley Joel Osmond. Great actor. Unfortunatnely, he also recently got arrested for drunk driving. (And he's 18, so legally he can't even drink yet.) My point had nothing to do with saying screen actors ACTED worse than others.

Yes I agree that hollywood can have people change and screw up. But that does not apply to all. Besides, Wether their personal life is good or not, that doesn't make any different wether or not their acting is superb or not. Anyway Tom Hanks is a good example I think. He is an amazing actor, and I don't really think he's been in much trouble. But I don't think this pertains to the argument much. The actors I really like are actors that are amazing. Simply as that. I don't believe any voice actor can be equally as good in their field of work compared to some of my favorite actors.

Also, most of the actors mentioned as "good voice actors" in this thread ALSO do on-screen or stage acting as well. Just listen to the ADV voice actor commentaries, for example--a lot of times they'll mention being in a stage production with another voice actor.

And thats cool. But of course, where do all actors originally start off? Mostly on stage performances. I haven't seen many voice actors star in movies.

IE, I think you'll find greats actors in both groups, and the reason I prefer voice actors is simply because I'm disenchanted with the Hollywood culture so many 'mainstream' actors have been sucked into. (Well, that and I watch more animation in general.)

The reason why I perfer actors over voice actors is because I don't focus on Hollywood at all. I focus on the movie at hand. Gladiator was an AMAZING movie. Russel Crowe is an AMAAAAAAZING actor. But in real life, he's a total jerk! However I don't focus on HIM. I focus on his ACTING and the characters he plays, The movie he is in, and it's plot and technique. And that's where I base my judgemenst off of. Not their personal lives.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Can you explain why? To me it seems less demanding.

I just thought about this at work today, and I have a valid explanation for why it is equally as demanding.

In voice acting, your speech must match the animation of the character speaking. That is something that regular actors don't have to worry about is syncing up their talking with an animated mouth. They can just talk however they want, within the confines of the script. However, voice actors must talk within the confines of the script in addition to making the timing of the animation.

Thus, I now see them on equal footing, neither is more difficult or more easy than the other.

kaemmerite wrote:In voice acting, your speech must match the animation of the character speaking. That is something that regular actors don't have to worry about is syncing up their talking with an animated mouth. They can just talk however they want, within the confines of the script. However, voice actors must talk within the confines of the script in addition to making the timing of the animation.

That is not true. Did you know in most modern-day movies, all the spoken words are redubbed after filming? The actors come back when the filming is done and respeak their lines. Reason is so the camera doesn't pick up random sounds from the background during shooting. (Remember, almost nothing is shot chronologically)

Here's an example. Let's say you have a scene where you have shots going back and forth between a teacher and a student in a classroom. And they're having a conversation. You're not going to shoot 2 people back and forth. You're going to have one person say all their lines (with small breaks inbetween of course) and then the other person talk. (Because that would be VERY time consuming) What if there were students in the hall clamoring ONLY when the student was talking? The shots going back and forth would be weird. From students in the hall to no students in the hall. Or if the airconditioner is making a humming noise. No hum. Then a hum. Then no hum, then a hum again.

Do actors talk while filming? Oh certaintly. They need the lip movements to be there. Unless it's like a shot where you don't see their mouth. (Then again, they still might. Who really knows)

And ML. I thought of this. How do we know that voice actors aren't living bad lives? Their lives are never publicized. Since the press or the news doesn't care much about them (as much as a movie star) we can't assume that voice actors always live better lives. I mean of voice actor x from anime x were to deal drugs or commit suicide. I don't think it would be around the news much (other than the possibility of being on ANN)

As someone who's participated in drama clubs for several years and who does a lot of sound recording, I'm inclined to say they're about equal.

In live film, you ARE the character. It's far easier to get into your role when the role is 100% you. Within the confines of the demands of the script, you have the freedom to add yourself into your character and this makes the whole of the job a lot easier. I'm reminded of a scene early in Kodocha where Sana is asked to co-star in a TV film, and how much that affects her -- it's much the same with real filming.

A voice-actor, on the other hand, can define nothing about their character beyond inflection and voice. Everything else is fixed, and that makes the job far harder than you might think.

As a result, a truly good voice actor will need to be capable of emulating more than one voice, a talent virtually non-existant in live-action film, simply because it's not as necessary. This, in my opinion, is a far more difficult talent to master than a convincing role in film, and because this talent is so difficult, even in the voice acting industry it's hard to find people who have really mastered it. I do recognize that many VAs and Seiyuu really fall flat when it comes to doing 'different' voices, but some of them have a very wide range of voices (Crispin Freeman comes to mind). However, it's no surprise to me that there's a severe lack of truly amazing voice talent.

Try it some time -- Grab a microphone and plug it into your PC -- see how many voices you can create that are convincingly 'not you' that you can emulate consistently. You'll begin to respect the talents of VAs a whole lot more.