CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

There are times when we need to be reminded that anime like any other form of tv/movies is just entertainment.As such it can be enjoyed however
way is most understood by the viewer.
Unfortunately from time to time there sadly appears a bit of elitism in one group over another.
What I am referring to is the Subs Are Better Than The Dubs subfandom.
Now I am not against anyone who enjoys the subs,what I AM against is people who go out of their way to prove that the Dubs are inferior,which they are not.
To have a spirit of elitism is to loose out on the joy of what watching anime is all about.It also discourages newcomers.
As far as it goes here are some rules I believe that we as fans need to follow:
1.Never presume that one form of anime(subs or dubs)is the ONLY way to watch or SUPERIOR to any other form.
2.Be gracious when someone disagrees with you.
3.If you have not seen a series in dub form then don't WHINE about it being inferior to the sub.Also vice versa.
4.Don't call the voice actors names.
5.Don't say that 'voice actor blank isn't as good as seiyuu blank..'actors and actresses have different ways of interpreting the same character.Mel Gibson's Hamlet is not the same as Sir Laurence Olivier's.
6.Just be thankful we DO HAVE ANIME.
7.Think of how your attitude affects those who read your posts.

Personally, it doesn't matter much to me which a person likes. However, sometimes (not all the time, but sometimes) the dub IS inferior to the sub, when the company hires voice actors who do not know how to act or do not fit the characters. An example would be if I hired someone who sounds like the Fonz to voice Miroku.

Like I said, personally, it doesn't matter to me which you like. Just that I find it hard to understand why someone would want to listen to something of lesser quality, you know? But it's your choice, and that's fine, so I don't fault ya for it.

But by the same token, while it's your opinion that the dubs are just as good, it's also others' opinion that dubs are inferior...that doesn't make you right and them wrong, or vice-versa, but it's their opinion, and they're not wrong for having it, just as you aren't wrong for having yours.

kaemmerite wrote:Personally, it doesn't matter much to me which a person likes. However, sometimes (not all the time, but sometimes) the dub IS inferior to the sub, when the company hires voice actors who do not know how to act or do not fit the characters. An example would be if I hired someone who sounds like the Fonz to voice Miroku.

Like I said, personally, it doesn't matter to me which you like. Just that I find it hard to understand why someone would want to listen to something of lesser quality, you know? But it's your choice, and that's fine, so I don't fault ya for it.

But by the same token, while it's your opinion that the dubs are just as good, it's also others' opinion that dubs are inferior...that doesn't make you right and them wrong, or vice-versa, but it's their opinion, and they're not wrong for having it, just as you aren't wrong for having yours.

You bring up a good point, but there are some anime fans that take the fun out of watching anime.

I have seen the ugly side to anime fans at cons and clubs.

I have been to clubs that bash others that may like dub or sub. There has been some in clubs get on other people cases if they only seen cut ver of anime. Some have even gone so far and say, if you watching in dub and cut, then you are not really an anime fan.

Some cons that I have gone to, I have seen some people get really rude with the VA's, just because they don't like work.

But you have people like this in any hobby. I just feel that, you watch it the way you want to watch it and don't worry about what others think.


Wingzero22

Some anime do have atrocious dubs, though, like Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi, One Piece, (practically ANY 4Kids title), and Cardcaptors, so I can see where the hatred is coming from. However, I do like the dubs for Cowboy Bebop and Big O.

Basically, what I object to about dubs is the 4Kids-ish stuff that chops it up and remakes it so they can get money. They're not showing respect for the art or the creator's original purpose.

You make a valid point, though, I think; I do tend to generalize too much when it comes to subs and dubs.

As I've said many times on other forums, there is no end-all as to which is better, the sub or the dub. It's best to take it on a case-by-case basis. And, with the advent of DVD's, it's that much easier to toggle between languages to find which one suits your liking.

The fact that some fans say that "if you don't like the sub you're not a REAL fan" is very sad. On the one hand, these hardcore fans want everyone to be an anime fan--and most anime fans today were introduced to anime via cut dubbed anime. A large part of the anime community would be lost if the only fans were the "REAL FANS", and most people who don't mind or, heaven forbid, LIKE the dubs in their native language are often treated with disrespect, particularly online.

Well, I love both sub and dub, but it usually pertains to which anime. Overall, I love dub, as long as the voice acting is overall good. Sub gives you more of a deeper insight into the anime, as it originally is, in japanese, but oh well..lol... Sometimes I generalize, but that is because of perception (4kids is definitly the percieving part), but good old anime dubbed, including Cowboy Bebop is totally awesome dubbed.

starwarsboy90 wrote:Sub gives you more of a deeper insight into the anime, as it originally is, in japanese, but oh well..lol...

Eh...I'm a big fan of subs too, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to take the other side of the spectrum here.

What gives subs "more insight" into the anime than dubs do? It's not that the subs are more accurate, if that's your belief. I've talked to people who know Japanese, and there are times when the subtitle does not match the Japanese speech at all. Most people just don't realize it because they can't speak Japanese, and assume that the subtitles are a "true" translation and the dub is not, which is not true at all.

Further, the dub can actually give you BETTER insight into the anime than the sub. Don't believe me? Take Tenchi. Ayeka speaks with a very distinguished and proper dialect in the original Japanese. The problem is, unless you speak Japanese, you'd never know that. It certainly can't be translated into text how a person speaks. But when Ayeka's English voice actor was cast, she put in a snobbish, very arrogant way of speaking into the role. In that way, it was easy to tell how she was speaking.

It's the same when someone in the original Japanese speaks with an Osakan dialect. Unless you speak Japanese, you will NEVER know that they are speaking with such a dialect (unless another character states, "You sound like an Osakan"). In the dubs, they usually use a Texan-type accent for this type of dialect. It can often come out sounding very bad (Kitsune from Love Hina, for example), but it IS a way to show that the character has a dialect different from what the other characters in the show are speaking.

And that is how dubs can give you more insight into a series than subs (unless you speak Japanese).

Subtitles by themselves don't give you more insight, but subs allow for more insight... Notes and the inclusion of Japanese words (and subsequent explanation) that would sound really strange in a dub, as well as almost never americanizing it, for the most part subs ARE better than dubs... If there are both subtitles and dubs for an anime, it is far less likely that the subtitles will be "americanized", wheras the Dub has a high chance of being americanized... Plus, it's just better to hear something in its original language, with the original actors...

As for dubs giving you more insight? That tenchi example doesn't really work. See, just because she talks in that accent doesn't mean it conveys a similar thing about the character that the Japanese did. Characters in anime are OFTEN given crazy accents in dubs that don't have anything to do with their characters... It's just done for an easier way to differentiate between the characters... This isn't exclusive to dubs, mind you (the official translation of Final Fantasy V comes to mind... ugh... Oh, and Chrono Cross) however the chances of it happening in subtitles are much lower...

Of course, to show anime to newbies and people who can't read, I have to use dubs... I'd rather have everyone learn Japanese and watch it raw, though. Hehe

The main point I am trying to bring up is though we may disagree on the subject of dubs versus subs we still can do so in a very polite manner while keeping in mind that this is just entertainment and wheter or not we like one or the other is not going to change much how the world turns.

I feel for those bad accents. After all, I'm from the southern US, and I've had to endure fake accents from Hollywood types who think we all sound like Foghorn Leghorn and Dolly Parton.

Repeating what others said:

If the dub is good, then it typically seems to be more of an opinion than anything.
I mean, I like the dub for Trigun, but some claim it's horrible (which makes no sense whatsoever to me...). In a different case, namely Outlaw Star, I thought the dub was decent, but the voices sounded a bit... odd, to me. It's the kind that you could show the uncut to an American fan, and it'd be fine, but for some, the sub just sounds better, like it was for me. I eventually just flipped to Japanese and watched the subtitles on the DVD (though I could tell some of them were off :p ).

Then, there's the ones that give you a reason to complain about the dub *cough*OnePiece*cough*. In that case, I can understand trying to convince someone to watch the subbed version. I mean, if they claim to be a fan and all they're getting is a chopped crappy version, it seems like they'd thank you for showing them more (if not, well... there's no hope for them then :l ).

Really, all of it has to do with opinions and preference. Which do you prefer over the other, dubs or subs. Personally, I like Dubs cause I don't have to read every stinkin' thing they say. Like the dubbed movies from china and crap that you can rent at the movie gallery/movie stars/movie rental place they have the subtitles and I think its annoying to have to read. But see, that's what I prefer. I prefer not to read. Some prefer the original japanese version to the american version. See? It makes sense... doesn't it?

Okay, no one isn't better than the other, but some think that a few subs are better than their dubs (I've personally got to give that one to them though. I mean, I haven't seen any dubs or heard the originial japanese voice actors, but after hearing the American va's for some animes I'd say the japanese can't be any worse). Only the whole 'japanese VA's are better than the American's' can work the other way. Some of us who see the dub first and actually LIKE *shock yes I said like* the VA's might watch the Japanese and think, 'ew, that VA makes her/him to whinny!' or something. Do you see what I'm saying?

So this whole thing has to do with what different people prefer, like, and what opinions they hold. Everybody is different, so everybody is going to differ somewhere in someway from the next person, even if those two have a lot of other stuff in common. Its how God made us. There's no need to talk-down things we don't like, because someone else may like it. See?

Bobtheduck wrote:As for dubs giving you more insight? That tenchi example doesn't really work. See, just because she talks in that accent doesn't mean it conveys a similar thing about the character that the Japanese did. Characters in anime are OFTEN given crazy accents in dubs that don't have anything to do with their characters... It's just done for an easier way to differentiate between the characters... This isn't exclusive to dubs, mind you (the official translation of Final Fantasy V comes to mind... ugh... Oh, and Chrono Cross) however the chances of it happening in subtitles are much lower...

Again, it depends on the anime. What about anime that takes place outside of Japan? Take Hellsing for example. In that anime, characters are from America, England, Ireland and Italy--and dubbed with proper accents. Japanese not being my first language, I wouldn't be able to tell whether the Japanese VA's were speaking Japanese in the respective accents, or if they're even speaking in an accent at all.

Of course, to show anime to newbies and people who can't read, I have to use dubs... I'd rather have everyone learn Japanese and watch it raw, though. Hehe

Some of us couldn't learn another language unless given a real incentive, such as being an international translator with lots of bonus pay. Learning a new language just to watch a show isn't a reality in a lot of people's lives. They'd either have to have a lot of time on their hands, be an obsessed fan, or probably both.

As far as my take on the sub vs. dub thing goes, I can't really take a side on the matter, because I've seen a lot more dubbed anime than subbed. (I've only watched four episodes of Dragon Ball GT subbed) For the longest, Funimation had rubbed me the wrong way but are starting to redeem themselves with the dubbing of Full Metal Alchemist, even though I hardly ever watch it. On the 4Kid$ front, I can understand why they're not very popular with anime fans. According to an ANN (Anime News Network) report regarding the localization of Tokyo Mew Mew, which I will refer to as such in the future, 4Kid$ CEO Al Kahn says, quote, "By the time we localize the programs kids don’t even know they’re from Japan any more.", end quote. That, my friends, is the biggest slap in the face of anime fans' intelligence I've ever seen. He also states that the "anime" label is for adults and not for children. By the looks of things, he had probably never been to an anime convention before that showcased children's anime the way the original creator intended. I just hope that a company like ADV buys the rights of that and all the other animes that they've butchered and presents them the way the original creator intended. Is that too much to ask? If I was asking Al Kahn, he'd probably say yes.

In most cases I like to subbed better than the dubbed, however, there are some dubbed series that I think are done very well. It's completely ridiculous for people to argue over something as trivial as this. It is all a matter of personal opinion.

i think the whole subs is better than dubs or ves versa battle is kinda 1 persons oppion on certain anime cuz i personally like the FMA dubs better and most ppl get angry after watching a sub version then going to dub. i think the dub version captures the emotion better. but anyway just my oppion

Actually, the dubbed version of FMA catches the emotion better, mainly becuase the VA for Edward knows his stuff. It is a real good series and I love it both dubbed and subbed. I can't wait until they dubb the final chapters though, becuase they were real good subbed, and dubbed, they would be totally awesome with Vic playing his role as Edward!

It's funny. When I started getting into the fandom, I used to be so devoted to subs that I began hating dubs simply because they weren't subs. The more older I got and the more anime I watched, the more I stopped caring about the differences. I soon tolerated dubs that I used to find "atrocious" and watched anime simply for the sake of having a good time (as opposed to trying to be overly critical of the language barriers that exist on both audio tracks).

And yes. While anime may hold as something special to an individual, more or less like a hobby, it's still another form of entertainment that shouldn't be a reason to lose your teeth over.