Where to Watch Anime?

[ForeverInspired]

Since I'm fairly new to the industry (about 1 1/2 years), I was wondering if someone here would know more about this question that I have been pondering for a long time. I am not sure if anyone has created a similar topic before - I apologize if there is an existing one that I missed.

I was wondering if it is best to not watch fansubs and to only watch anime that Crunchyroll, Funimation, Hulu, Niconico, Crackle, and Viz host since they seem to be legal sites. I have researched this topic and have seen that it is very controversial. Some say that it's fine to watch on other sites since they have not been licensed while others say it is still wrong. Also, some of the sites that have videos embeded into them do have terms of use that state not to have illegal videos uploaded onto them. Yet, I have been hearing that these sites are not the best as well.

On my own part, I do get frustrated with the limited amount of series (let alone movies... which are very rare) available on the sites that have been approved. I do want to do the right thing though and would appreciate guidance with this problem.

If there are other sites for anime and manga that are good, I would love to learn of them.

Thanks!

[skreyola]

Sites with videos that are not licensed can bring a number of problems. Depending on local law where you are, it may be illegal for you to watch them. Depending on who runs the site, there is a small chance that the videos can carry a malware payload. But all of that aside, if you watch videos that are not licensed, you are depriving the content creator of their rightful profit in the work and may be helping others with no legitimate interest in the IP to profit from the creator's investment.
As I see it (and others may see it differently), the right thing is to watch on streaming sites that pay royalties to the owner of the IP, or to purchase shows through legitimate channels.
The selection on the legitimate sites is sometimes frustrating, but what else can you do without depriving the artists of their due profit?

[ForeverInspired]

Those are some good points. Thank you for helping me with this.

[KazeShiki]

Yeah if you want to be completely in the clear, just stick to Crunchyroll, Hulu, etc. The technicalities can get convoluted on how you choose to define "right" such as using a site which only links to 3rd party streaming site which happens to be an illegally uploaded video. How "wrong" that is is worthless debate. It's just a matter of your own conscience, as the chances of authorities bothering to do anything about it is essentially zero while anything fansubbed is illegal material to begin with. Manga sites are pretty much all illegal. I believe there is like one or two examples of sites trying to do it legally but they never had success. Of course, within the realm of illegal manga sites, there are a bunch of definitions of what is "right" and "wrong" due to certain sites profiting off others' work, etc. but I won't go into detail with that. If you want the best (illegal) option for manga, go straight to the source and visit the actual translators' websites.

The selection on the legitimate sites is sometimes frustrating, but what else can you do without depriving the artists of their due profit?

I don't believe in the idea that watching/reading illegally obtained anime/manga hurts sales or the creator - if it weren't for piracy, anime would never have exploded in the West to what it is today. The relationship between piracy and Japan's anime-related industry is more complex than "depriving due profit." I mean, Japan never even cared about foreigners until very recently. A few years ago, you couldn't watch subbed anime legally, so there was no "profit" to deprive because it was either watch illegally or don't watch at all. It wasn't even a matter of waiting because the vast majority would never get dubs or subs. There have been times where fansubbers went straight to the creators and asked for permission. Sometimes they were allowed to, even though the fansubs never directly made a cent for the creator (but it eventually turned over revenue through fans who decided to buy goods - which is monetarily no different than piracy that didn't ask for permission resulting in sales). There are also cases in the VN industry where the companies adopted fan translations, which actually saved them money and time. So yeah, it's certainly illegal, but are you really depriving profit when there is no legal way to do it and the illegal way has historically boosted sales and popularity? With no legal way to get subs, piracy is closer to free advertisement than robbing profits. Also consider that Crunchyroll was originally one of those illegal sites making money off anime yet is now essentially the flagship of legal subbed anime streaming lol.

[ForeverInspired]

Those are some of the points that made me confused, which is why I ended up posting the question. Thanks for the advice. I never knew that about Crunchyroll... that is kind of funny. Hopefully, that means that the anime industry will be expanding in the next couple of years so that I won't have to worry about this anymore.

[ClaecElric4God]

I'm gonna agree with KazeShiki here. One thing I've noticed is, when people watch anime or read manga "illegally", they quite often like it so much that they end up going out and buying it. Even though a lot of people never spend a penny watching anime, there are those that buy it because of what they saw for free. So it seems to me like these sites are kind of like advertisements.

Note: I'm not actually trying to make an argument that these sites are okay or morally sound or whatever. Just throwing in my two cents. I honestly don't have an opinion on the matter.

[MomentOfInertia]

Eh, it's a big topic.

I'd say go through all the decent stuff on the fully legitimate sites before you delve into this quagmire of debatable morality. And while you're doing that it's quite possible that the unlicensed shows that you're pining after may well have been licensed; as I recall many of the recent shows that were popular fansubs were assumed to be shows that would never be licensed due to their oddness, and yet since then they have been. Of course the question at this point becomes 'was the show licensed on it's own merits or because of the massive popularity of the fansubs?' I don't know. And then there's the case of shows that we know will never be licensed due to issues with the legal status of the show itself; cases like the past deals made for the Macross franchise, or any anime with some popstar performing a role (their contracts tend to include "will not be dubbed over" clauses), or shows that contain a large amount of content that is owned by someone besides the anime company.

Personally I find it difficult to condone using illegitimate means to watch something that is available through legitimate ones (of course if the legitimate means are a VHS set from 20 years ago that runs upwards of $100 a tape on ebay...). Similarly I think in the case of shows that are being licensed or are likely to be licensed the proper course is just to wait for it.

I think that the only defensible place to start the grey area is with shows that have not or will not be licensed, weather the reason be that they are bizarre, obscure, entangled, or whatever reason. At this time the best justified case for fansubing that I am aware of is probably Legend of the Galactic Heroes it is long, complex, old, long, obscure outside certain sectors of the anime fandom, it has never been licensed, and due to the limited market and immensity of the localization required it is extremely likely that it ever will be. Hyouka or Dennou Coil are better examples of perfectly good shows that for whatever reason just didn't get licensed, and are in my opinion leading contenders to be the next 'title that would never be licensed that was', but until then there is no legitimate way to see them and the only way that any company is likely to decide to license them is if they remain popular enough despite being unlicensed.


Well, that muddied the waters enough I think. I only intended to write a couple of sentences here and now I've gone and dropped an essay on you.

Heh. It's all hypothetical for me anyway, I can't even keep up with the legit stuff that's coming out.

[ForeverInspired]

Thanks! I am frustrated that Hyouka hasn't been licensed. Then you have Bakuman that was licensed for the first two seasons and then dropped while never doing the third. Also, rarely does a movie or special/OVA get licensed. It drives me nuts when SAO gets a special released in the US that literally was all recap with a 20 minute mediocre story while some of the Kuroko specials can only be found on illegal streaming. Hopefully, Madoka gets at least Rebellion licensed.

Look at me rant. lol Still, I think that I'll try to stick to the legal sites as much as possible.

[Mullet Death]

There's always a legit way to watch any show not necessarily licensed outside Japan; importing the BD/DVD. While I feel the pain and frustration of not being able to do that for financial reasons- I've only seen One Piece and Fairy Tail up to the official Funimation release, for instance- I should think that "I can't afford this content" is a pretty pitiful justification for indulging in a moral grey area. Personally, I avoid anything that isn't an official release or stream like the plague. That's my take on this subject in general, this post isn't a response to anyone in particular. My friend irl and I clash about this all the time.

[skreyola]

The selection on the legitimate sites is sometimes frustrating, but what else can you do without depriving the artists of their due profit?

I don't believe in the idea that watching/reading illegally obtained anime/manga hurts sales or the creator - if it weren't for piracy, anime would never have exploded in the West to what it is today.

I actually agree with you 100% that, in the long run, piracy does not constitute a significant threat to the profit of content creators as a real-world market force (as opposed to an ethical or moral issue). However, this comment was made from the standpoint of "if everyone were like me"... because, while I've seen over 100 series, there are fewer than a dozen I'm interested in buying for my own collection, so had I watched those 100+ series through sites that didn't contribute back to the property holders, they wouldn't have made any money off me, while the actual case is that they got a cut of the advertising revenue I generated for Hulu/CR. Just for me, I try to make sure the creator gets some revenue because I'm a content creator, myself, even while I recognize that most people are too uptight about copyright-infringing viewing (which is economically more like borrowing from a library) and not enough about illegal copying (which is a form of theft).
I also feel that there ought to be an "willfully untapped-market" exclusion for copyright infringement (AKA abandonware, etc.), but I don't write the laws...

[KazeShiki]

I guess we're both in agreement then! I was referring to the part about limited selectivity and what to do when there isn't a legal alternative. And yes you can import the BD but if it doesn't have subs (and most don't), I'm pretty sure people would not bother. Same thing with manga - you can import it but if you can't read Japanese, I don't think you would buy it just to try it, when you can't even read it. In other words, the legal alternative is one where you wouldn't watch/read anyway, which doesn't help anyone. For clarification again, I'm only referring to the case where you want to try a series out but there is no legal way other than waiting for Japan's BD release and then importing said non-subbed BDs for $300-600 or $70 for just the first 2 episodes. Granted, this is quickly becoming less and less of a problem, but that is a very recent development in the industry.

And random note - Madoka Rebellion is guaranteed to get English release or official English subs or both. Probably both.

[skreyola]

Those prices, ouch!
To clarify, what I meant by "what can you do?" is that the selection is what it is.
I agree that it would be pretty silly to import a non-subbed set if you don't know Japanese well enough to understand it... but some would consider that a viable route: buy the disc, then grab a pirate sub to watch, now that you have purchased a license to the content.
The whole issue gets pretty complicated quickly, which is why I just watch what I can on the legit sites and whine about what isn't available.