Harry Potter

Postby **madphilb** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:37 pm

[quote="J_Howard"]kinda pity the moggles always getting bashed by harry. I mean what would be chance harry would survive a M1 Abarms tank or sniper being aimed at him? (no offence :sweat:

) i mean in real life that is.... ]
Hey JH....

are you saying you think that the book puts down the Muggles (non-magic folk)? I've heard that statement before once or twice (or something like it... that is... magic people good, non-magic people bad), but I don't really see that being the case.

I kinda think I see what you're saying, but something similar could be said of Narnia as well, Narnia in the worst of times seems to be a nicer place to be than real life.

Postby **Alexandra-chan** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:09 pm

I think its a wonderful series! I don't really believe in magic. I think the people who say magic is evil are a bit extreme and narrow minded. They scare me a bit

. "sighs" I guess that how the world is, but me is happy

Ja ne!

Postby **thalia** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:56 am

I love the Harry Potter series! I was a little disappointed with the fifth book, but it was still good. My favorite book is the third one, "Prisoner of Azkaban!" It's not too long and I love the plot twists at the end! I can't wait for the movie to come out in a little over a month!!!! I do not think the books are evil, but I do understand why some parents are hesitant to let their children read the books. I think that as long as the child knows that magic is not real and the books are fictional, then everything should be okay. There is nothing particularly anti-Christian (accept the witchcraft) in the books. The characters even get Christmas and Easter breaks! Oh, well, I do understand the other side, though. I think it is a good thing to monitor what your children read, because there are some BAD books out there!

Postby **PreventerWind** » Wed May 19, 2004 1:16 pm

Although some elements of the Potter series are in contradiction with Christian beliefs, I feel that the overall message and themes are very positive and very much in-line with Christian ideals. I, personally, love the Potter franchise. I think it's well-written, very easy to read and a ton of fun.

I'm not going to say you're right or wrong in reading the Harry Potter books as a Christian. This is a real grey area. Anyone who is debating picking up one of these books for the first time should do a little self-examination, talk to a Christian friend or your pastor and then make your decision.

Postby **Heart of Sword** » Wed May 19, 2004 4:03 pm

I think its a wonderful series! I don't really believe in magic. I think the people who say magic is evil are a bit extreme and narrow minded. They scare me a bit . "sighs" I guess that how the world is, but me is happy

Ja ne!

I really DO NOT want to be caught in the middle of an argument, so I'll say this while I run quickly out of this thread: the Bible specifically states that those who do magic will not be in the kingdom of God.

Harry Potter may not be from the devil, but reading something about witchcraft just isn't something I'd do: if a book has some magical elements in it, that depends really, but if it's about sorcery...I just don't do that.

That's all I'm saying, and I'm getting out before this turns into an argument (which it probably will). I'm very sorry if any offense was taken because I do not mean to upset anyone.

Postby **Tidus20** » Fri May 21, 2004 2:03 pm

My favorite book is the third one, "Prisoner of Azkaban!" It's not too long and I love the plot twists at the end!

I'm just finishing that one.

Postby **Six** » Sat May 22, 2004 7:42 pm

i know alot of people who didnt like OotP, i personally thought it was a great book and had amazing character development... its fun to see the characters growing up and really starting to find who they are.... yet still be confused by life and how and why things happen the way they do... it was definatly my favorite out of the five

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:32 am

Alexandra-chan wrote:I think its a wonderful series! I don't really believe in magic. I think the people who say magic is evil are a bit extreme and narrow minded. They scare me a bit . "sighs" I guess that how the world is, but me is happy

Ja ne!

Hmm... Sorry to say, the Bible does say that witchcraft is a serious sin (right up there with lying and homosexuality, and yes those two are put in the same degree and no I don't believe all sins are the same, but lets not get into that)

Of course, the witchcraft in HP isn't real witchcraft... This is entirely fictional. They're witches or wizards because they are born that way, and the magic is academic... The spells are just clever latin or nonsense phrases, the alchemy is all completely made up (for instance, Mandrakes are just plants; they don't scream) and while there is some real mythology stuck in there (European witch mythology) there is nothing really accurate to any of the Magik practicing religions like Wicca...

Probably the closest to reality that the stories got was the "Philosopher's Stone" (which Scolastic chaned to "Sorcerer's Stone") which has some basis in history... There was an alchemist named Nicholas Flammel who was trying to reach immortality, and though he died, there were rumors that he had developed the "Philosopher's Stone" and had received immortality... That was really just clever storytelling to borrow from myths and legends from times long past (some people think he's still alive now...

)

Even things that are harder to separate from the reality in other stories such as PSI (as in Metal Gear) I don't think it's wrong to have those things in a story. That's just my opinion, anyhow... Of course, even most stories that deal with PSI don't do it realistically (unlike Metal Gear... The levitation and distance viewing, at least, were really researched by the US and Soviet governments... And then there's the subject of the Illuminati, which I won't get into, but they nod to those theories in Sons of Liberty, but we're talking about Harry Potter, not Metal Gear...)

I will read all of the books once when I am no longer living with my Parents. I think they are interesting stories...

Postby **Kireihana** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:43 am

I don't see how the author's religion has anything to do with it. It's the content of the book that matters. And if we're comparing HP to other book/movie franchises that contain magical/spiritual themes, why not delve in Star Wars a bit? The Force is pretty magical. And watch out for those Jedi mind tricks! .... Is George Lucas a Satanist?!? (XD, kidding. I really like the [original] Star Wars Series. Seriously though, people should at least be consistent in their condemnations...)

Postby **Six** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:21 am

well rowling is not a witch, she is actually a member of the national church of england (or something similarly named) the rumor that she is a satanist was started by an online satire website called the onion... it was picked up and blown out of proportion by christians who were overeager to criticize and condemn harry potter and those who read it.

Postby **Inferno** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:57 am

I have a question for everyone.(i know the answer to this already duh) Does reading harry potter (even though the bible say DOING witch crraft can send you to hell) mean you will go to Hell?

Postby **Ashley** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:46 pm

i know the answer to this already duh

If you already know the answer then I hope in the future you'll have the good sense not to post such an explosive question. These are the kind of things that blossom very, very quickly into debates and flame wars. I ask everyone instead move away from is Harry Potter right or wrong/is Rowling a witch/will you go to hell/etc. questions and let the fans get back to talking about what they love. The moment discussions get out of line after this a mod will shut it down.

Postby **Heart of Sword** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:29 pm

I have a question for everyone.(i know the answer to this already duh) Does reading harry potter (even though the bible say DOING witch crraft can send you to hell) mean you will go to Hell?

If you're not Christian, yes, you'll go to Hell. Reading it isn't evil as long as you don't start doing the stuff he does.

A Bonehead with a sense of humor, a knack for a play on words, and lots and lots of money. The same kind of question could be asked: "what kind of bonehead calls themself Ruroken?" But I thought that'd be over the top

But Ruroken stands for Rurouni Kenshin...hogwarts is just...freaky sounding.

In Lord of the Rings, the magic doesn't play a large part in the story, so for me, LOTR is permissible, and the author was a Christian. In Harry Potter, the magic is very important to the story, which is why I personally don't like it.

Eh. @@x I just avoid it.

Postby **MasterDias** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:28 pm

Six wrote:well rowling is not a witch, she is actually a member of the national church of england (or something similarly named) the rumor that she is a satanist was started by an online satire website called the onion... it was picked up and blown out of proportion by christians who were overeager to criticize and condemn harry potter and those who read it.

That is very true.

I have a question for everyone.(i know the answer to this already duh) Does reading harry potter (even though the bible say DOING witch crraft can send you to hell) mean you will go to Hell?

Reading a book isn't going to send you to Hell.
Not if you are a Christian.

i know alot of people who didnt like OotP, i personally thought it was a great book and had amazing character development... its fun to see the characters growing up and really starting to find who they are.... yet still be confused by life and how and why things happen the way they do... it was definatly my favorite out of the five

OotP is my personal favorite as well. For many of the reasons that you stated. And a pretty cool series of battles at the end...

Postby **Six** » Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 am

yeah im reareading it now... the way the book makes you feel about certain characters is really good... i mean in OotP there are times when the main character is a jerk (not unrealistic as we are all jerks sometimes) and you dont like him... not too many authors are that brave with thier central characters and i like it.

also on the lotr note... so because there is less magic, its not wrong? (also... the Ring is magic... sting is enchanted... the whole organization of the orcs and evil races was brought about by magic... i would say there is plenty of magic in lotr... even though it may play a different role... i dont believe it is less central.

Postby **Mr_Anderson** » Tue May 25, 2004 10:26 am

Some of my friends say its bad some say its good, i put its ok.

Postby **Ren_sama** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:09 pm

I like Harry Potter. I hardly read, but when I read the 1st book, I enjoyed it, so I continued reading it. Its really good~

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:23 pm

I, uh, listened to Prizoner of Azkaban, and I wasn't too happy with the Divination class... They did use a lot of authentic stuff, even though [spoiler=Azkaban]the teacher was shown to be a fraud except for 2 predictions[/spoiler] That seems just as bad as if they approved of it, to me.

Of course, as a presbyterian (or so I've heard), Rowling probably doesn't believe in the spiritual world as a working force today, but the inclusion of palmistry and crystal ball reading was a bit of a kick in the wrong direction for me. I still love the stories... So far, anyhow...

On lighter matters [spoiler=Azkaban]I can't believe scabbers is evil! Man... That was a big surprise to me. Additionally, I had no clue about Professor Lupin being a werewolf. I usually predict things better, but I guess I was too caught up in it to do that.[/spoiler]

Hopefully I'll be out of my parents house by the time the 6th and 7th books come out... And hopefully it doesn't end up gettting even worse than the divination thing... I really like the stories...

Postby **Ren_sama** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:34 pm

Well, I don't think the divitation thing is too much of a worry--since its only a minor class which plays its biggest role in the 3rd (or 4th?) book...

Like Heart fo Sword stated, I also believe that as long as you don't start believing that magic's real, then I don't see why HP is such a bad book...

Well, I'll end it there...like Ashley said--we.don't.want.to.start.a.flame.war~!!!

^^''

Postby **Six** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:15 pm

it does a pretty good job playing off divination as a crock of nothing anyway.

Postby **Angel37** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:17 pm

Harry Potter....*sighs*...so much symbolism...so little time....I love the series but that's only because I can relate with the main character on certain personal and painful subjects far too well....oh well...makes for good poetry...
-Angel

Postby **Six** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:59 pm

aye well thats where alot of the popularity comes from... rowling is very good at capturing human emotion on paper... very identifiable characters indeed.

Postby **madphilb** » Wed May 26, 2004 8:05 pm

The whole divination class thing is the one worst part of the series, and thankfully Rowling doesn't play it up as being "all that," but more like junk science than anything (with a few exceptions related to the story).

My guess is that Rowling doesn't put much stock in such things in real life.... but I'd love to hear a conformation of that from her in some sort of interview.... sadly the best people to ask such questions would be Christians, yet most of the one who would be the most concerned about this are the ones who already have her labeled as "satanic" and whatnot.

I take each book as it comes and make my judgement from there... if the Divination classes are the "spiritual low point" of the series I'll be very happy reading all 7 books.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Thu May 27, 2004 12:38 pm

One thing that I'm starting to think as I get more acquainted with the stories is that while Snape is a very bitter person, most of his anger with Harry is justified... Harry breaks rules, he's dishonest, and Snape's suggestion of punishment for with-holding truth when the cat was petrified was completely reasonable. Of course, he is wrong for overlooking the worse brat (Malfoy) but a brat is a brat. Harry is a bit nicer, but he's still a brat. Draco is given allowances because of his money, and Harry is given allowances because of his past. I hope that at some point in the series, this is dealt with... Somehow...

Postby **Lehn** » Thu May 27, 2004 1:55 pm

Slightly (okay, I lie) totally off-topic:

There's one scene that I simply can't wait to see on the big screen when Order comes out; the 'jailbreak' one towards the end with Twins.

......

I love those two boyos more and more as time goes on *nod**nod**nod*

Postby **Inferno** » Thu May 27, 2004 3:33 pm

[quote="Lehn"]Slightly (okay, I lie) totally off-topic:

There's one scene that I simply can't wait to see on the big screen when Order comes out]What scene is that again? could you please remind me?

Postby **Six** » Sat May 29, 2004 7:55 pm

Bobtheduck: you have a point, however i believe that at hogwarts most students (that we come to know well) recieve allowances, Draco (for his money sure) but also his henchmen crabbe and goyle, and of course ron, harry and hermione, (harry because of who he is and because he doesnt break rules maliciously) also fred and george weasly break many many many rules and havent been expelled either. also many of the rules that get broken are punished by taking points from the given team, and while we do see harry break a bunch of rules, he doesnt often get caught in his worst moments (accept in OotP) so really i think it pans out pretty fairly. when he gets caught he does get punished.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sun May 30, 2004 1:43 am

Just, um, listened to the end of Goblet of Fire... [spoiler=duh. plus Sailormoon season 1]Snape seems like Vegeta in DBZ... In other words, I expect him to go evil again, but maybe turn back before the end. Also, the dueling scene between Voldimort and Harry was just like the last battle in Sailormoon classic between Princess Serenity and Metalia... It was like any number of fantasy anime that has the dueling forces of good and evil... Ooh, it'ss going to me, ooh it's going to you... But, the thing with the Ghosts was almost exactly like Sailormoon... They helped Harry beat Voldimort just like the ghosts of the other senshi helped sailor moon... [/spoiler]I think that's sorta funny, but those connections are only there for people that have seen the original, so I'm sure it's just a coincidence, because if Rowling had seen Sailormoon, it would have almost certainly been the DiC version, and I'm not sure how interested a poor, unknown author would have had to watch a canadian children's show, let alone to watch the original. If she got inspiration from it after she wrote the first couple books, that's one thing, but still... I doubt she'd have watched the original SM anyhow...

I hope I'm on my own by the time book 6 and movie 4 come out...

Postby **madphilb** » Sun May 30, 2004 7:27 pm

Bobtheduck wrote:I hope I'm on my own by the time book 6 and movie 4 come out...

I'm guessing this is a bit Taboo in your household?

Seems that most Christians are split somewhere down the middle on the issue.... and you're interest in some of the different things (i.e. Anime as a big example) tends to leave you more open-minded as others (though I guess that's not the best word for it, a person's convictions are their own and to judge differently is just as bad).....

Wait till the 5th book.... Rowling has managed (in my case at least) to generate some really strong feelings about a non-existant group of people.... to the point of utter hate for one of the new teachers.

BTW, how are the audio books (I'm assuming that's what you've been "listening " to)? Not that I would get any more of a chance to listen to book as read them... just curious (I've got and read all the books anyway at this point, so I guess it doesn't really mattter).

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:13 pm

The audiobooks are quite nice... The guy makes voices for all the characters, and the voices of McGonogal(sp?) and Hagrid are dead on from the movies... Some of the voices are annoying, though, but the sound he made for Umbridge's little grunt is permanently etched into my mind, as is the tune he came up with for "Weasley is our King." I'm expecting a shock when I finally see "Order of the Phoenix" in theaters...

[spoiler=OotP]Umbridge has got to be the most annoying character in the series... She's evil and cunning and tries to be cute, she's arrogant and controlling and no one can touch her... She's in power and she has a vendetta against Harry and she's racist just like the Malfoys and Voldemort... It was painful reading any one of her scenes, particularly the detention scenes... [/spoiler]

edit [spoiler=next book?]I've been reading up on Mugglenet, and people have made a comment about the kid that Dudley beat up: Mark Evans. As names in HP are usually significant in some way, Mugglenet says that Evans may mean he's related to Lily and Petunia (Harry's mom and aunt) through an illigitimate relationship and that the name "Mark" could mean he has the dark mark on him... The age he was when he was brought up was a perfect age, 10, because he could be a wizard and go to hogwarts the next year. I mean, there should be some reason that his name was mentioned. So, yeah, it's not a connection I made (mostly because I didn't know Lily's maiden name... I'm sure it was said at some point, but I don't remember when)[/spoiler] In any case, These books are very addicting...

Harry Potter

Me lubs Hp!

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