Hey, Narnia fans!

[Animus Seed]

I thought this was pretty cool.

My Greek philosophy teacher is a Narnia fan, and he told me that Lewis hides ideas from Plato in Narnia. This is the example he gave me:

In the Republic, Plato lists what he considers to be the four virtues: (1) wisdom, (2) courage, (3) temperance, and (4) justice. In the Republic Plato puts forth his idea of a perfect government ruled by all four virtues. Now, Plato lived in Athens, a city renowned by the ancient Greeks for its wisdom and courage.

The Timaeus is Plato's discourse on creation. It starts with the question, "One, two three, but where is the fourth, Timaeus?" Plato's point (among other things) is that he doesn't see justice in his hometown of Athens, and Plato, living 400 years before the birth of Jesus, came to believe that justice was missing from creation itself.

In The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, when Aslan meets Peter, Susan, and Lucy for the first time, he asks:

"But where is the fourth?"

Now, when Aslan (who naturally represents Jesus) comes and dies and resurrects, He reintroduces and restores Edmund to his rightful place in Narnia. And what is Edmund's title?

King Edmund the Just.

^_^

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Wooaaah. I've never seen Narnia, but that's pretty wicked cool!

[RedMage]

Wooaaah. I've never seen Narnia, but that's pretty wicked cool!

"Seen"?

They were books before that darned movie was ever made, ya know.

[fairyprincess90]

WOW! thats pretty awesome!

[USSRGirl]

(grrr Stormcrow closed my thread. One more reason to hate Tolkien. J/k)

O.O Hmm interesting Animus. I hadn't heard that before.

[Animus Seed]

The question that follows is then, does Peter represent wisdom, Susan courage, and Lucy temperance? I see the connection with Lucy, but Peter and Susan seem almost switched to me.

[Mithrandir]

Now, now U. - don't get snippy.


This was actually really interesting. I've heard quite a few other interpretations, but this one is kind of interesting. It's been a while since I read plato though.

[JasonPratt]

^_^

Whoa... I have to admit, that was pretty nifty! {bowing in the general direction of your philosophy teacher} {making a mental note to bring this to the attention of Dr. Victor Reppert, who teaches Plato and is a Lewisian scholar}


I would suggest: Lucy = wisdom
Peter = courage
Susan = temperance

The classical numbering scheme is already swissed anyway, since Ed is not really the 'fourth' of the children (more like the third). Lucy is practically always the first on the ball in regard to Aslanic matters (with Susan being frequently dead last--the revelation from TLB really doesn't come out of plot-nowhere--so she could hardly count as 'wisdom'), and her name is old Latin for lightbearer. Plus as the youngest and most childlike, she would fit the Christian wisdom-motif.

Peter fits courage well enough (duh). And if we elide 'temperance' over to 'prudence', in both its positive and negative aspects, we get Susan's attitude. (Picked up on and expanded rather muchly in the movie, but still evident in the series.)

da-Ta?

[Animus Seed]

Whoa... I have to admit, that was pretty nifty! {bowing in the general direction of your philosophy teacher} {making a mental note to bring this to the attention of Dr. Victor Reppert, who teaches Plato and is a Lewisian scholar}


I would suggest: Lucy = wisdom
Peter = courage
Susan = temperance

The classical numbering scheme is already swissed anyway, since Ed is not really the 'fourth' of the children (more like the third). Lucy is practically always the first on the ball in regard to Aslanic matters (with Susan being frequently dead last--the revelation from TLB really doesn't come out of plot-nowhere--so she could hardly count as 'wisdom'), and her name is old Latin for lightbearer. Plus as the youngest and most childlike, she would fit the Christian wisdom-motif.

Peter fits courage well enough (duh). And if we elide 'temperance' over to 'prudence', in both its positive and negative aspects, we get Susan's attitude. (Picked up on and expanded rather muchly in the movie, but still evident in the series.)

da-Ta?

I logically place the kids in the order they were born]Symposium[/I].)

So, then, working in that order:

I think Lucy might represent temperance, or moderation. She has that sort of simple, child-like faith I wish we all had. But she never indulges herself, really, not even indulging in good qualities. Note that, while willing, she never fights, not even in the movie. Her gifts are a healing balm and a dagger. Now, she can defend herself with a dagger, but she probably shouldn't go charging into battle. She's a temperate soldier, not looking for trouble but ready to meet it when it comes, and able to heal her friends when they are wounded in battle.

For Susan, courage is an odd fit. (I do think Susan might be considered wise, at least at first, TLB not withstanding.) But it might make sense. Maybe. In that she speaks her mind, even when she knows she might be wrong. And she's Queen Susan the Gentle, so a true courage that remains a virtue must be tempered with gentleness, lest the couragous person become vicious. Or something. I don't know. Maybe. Lewis is a genius, and I'm not.

But Peter... yes, courage would be good. But he's High King Peter, the Magnificent. He's also the oldest. Sure, he's brave and a good fighter, but he does that almost out of necessity: to protect his brothers and sisters. Now, can a wise man be bad? If so, then he's not truly wise. A truly wise man will recognize the value of virtue, and be a good man. And is a good man not courageous? Is a good man not temperate, and just? So then, Peter partakes of all 4 virtues: he is courageous on the field of battle, temperate in his ruling of all Narnia, and just in his forgiveness of Edmund.

And so wisdom is the foundation of Cair Paravel.

[mitsuki lover]

Lewis actually lets his hand down and shows his cards in The Last Battle when he has Digory say:"It's all in Plato..."
In other words he wasn't hiding his allegiance to Platonic philosophy.

[JasonPratt]

Lewis actually lets his hand down and shows his cards in The Last Battle when he has Digory say:"It's all in Plato..."
In other words he wasn't hiding his allegiance to Platonic philosophy.

Doesn't Digory (aka Professor Kirk) say much the same thing in TLTW&TW, too...?

[Animus Seed]

Lewis actually lets his hand down and shows his cards in The Last Battle when he has Digory say:"It's all in Plato..."
In other words he wasn't hiding his allegiance to Platonic philosophy.

Maybe "hiding" was the wrong word in my first post. But still, when I read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe the first time (or tenth) I didn't catch the Timaeus reference. Even after reading Timaeus, I might not have noticed if Dr. Reynolds hadn't pointed it out to me.

[mitsuki lover]

I don't know about The Lion,The Witch And The Wardrobe but in The Last Battle
Lewis certainly pulls out all the Platonic stops.