Dogma

[cbwing0]

According to uc, there is already a thread for this movie, but I coulndn't find it by searching or scanning the list; so, I will start a new one.

I happen to like this movie, although I think it perpetuates some incorrect information. I will start with the aspects of the movie that I like.

The movie is funny. From the disclaimer-disclaimer in the beginning, to the end, it is packed with humor. It also satirizes many elements of Christianity, the church, and Christian traditions (which I would not call "mythology" ). I also like the fact that it makes a point of telling you not to take it seriously, which becomes important.

The movie has some tough theological questions that you will be hard-pressed to answer. This includes the problem of evil/pain, corrupt clergy, historical arguments for/against Christianity, and the power of the church. If you can answer all of the objections raised in the film, you will be able to handle the objections of nonbelievers.

Having said that, I don't like all of the inaccuracies in the film. The most glaring of which is the statement "It doesn't matter what you have faith in as long as you have faith." Nothing could be further from the truth. This, combined with the pure fantasy in the plot, could easily confuse the average person. In fact, I once talked to someone who quoted the exact line that I just quoted. It was quite sad.

I do not like how the film presses the "God is a woman" nonsense. Now, before you start writing angry replies saying "Well why couldn't God be a woman?!" listen to me. The bible is pretty clear when it says "God the FATHER," and "Jesus Christ the SON." In it's defense, one of the characters does intimate that God is immaterial, and thus neither male nor female at the end of the movie.

Finally, I would not recommend this movie to anyone who is uncomfortable with violence, bad language, or is weak in their faith; but if none is this describes you, it is a humorous and provocative film that you might want to see.

So, what do you think if Kevin Smith's "Dogma?"

[uc pseudonym]

It is possible my thread was in a bizarre forum, as it was created prior to the "In the Spotlight" forum. But ah well. We can discuss it here just as well, though I'll have to restate my positions.

Fortunately, you've done some of that for me.

The movie was relatively enjoyable at times. I especially like Metatron (both dry humor and British accent. Nice). I also think that it is acceptable to make fun of the church at times, as best stated by the Whittenburg Door: "The church has two parts, that which is of God and that which is of man. Our job is to make fun of the latter part."

I hadn't thought about the film as a testing of Christian theology. But I guess it does raise good issues, and if any of them are some you've never thought about, it's made you grow as a Christian.

Likewise, I cringe at the New Age messages, particularly the "It doesn't matter what you have faith in as long as you have faith."

The entire "God as a women" bit didn't really bother me. Particularly due to the fact that Rufas does have a line pointing out that God is immaterial.

For me, the sheer amount of cursing was slightly annoying. If I felt it was worth the effort, I will count the number of f-words in the movie. If I ever by chance watch this again, I will. My money is on triple digits.

[skynes]

Thought I probably shouldn't - I did find this film hilarious. Mainly all the judgement that the angels pouredo n everyone. Telling everyone their sins then wasting them for it.

The whole 13th Apostle thing was funny too. Edited out cause he was black.

As amusing as the film was DO NOT take the theology in it seriously. It's all messed up and if you based your faith on what it says you'd be one strange little person.

[true_noir_chloe]

Cbwing, since it seems we enjoy the same things, and think so similarly I might actually watch this movie sometime. I've been steering clear of it because I can't stand to watch anything that outright blasphemes my Lord. I do like a challenge,though. XD

[uc pseudonym]

Cbwing, since it seems we enjoy the same things, and think so similarly I might actually watch this movie sometime. I've been steering clear of it because I can't stand to watch anything that outright blasphemes my Lord. I do like a challenge,though. XD

The thing is, the movie doesn't really blaspheme God (outside of the New Age parts). The creator is actually Christian, though, by his own admittance, not a very good one. But he has written about the movie that it is his effort to glorify God, and also his attempt to spread the Gospel through his own work.

Also, he states that he certainly hopes God has a merciful sense of humor.

[Orange Kitten]

The movie started out pretty good, but thought it began to drag later on. George Carlin as a priest is classic though.

The Bible does state "God the Father"; could be quite possible that is just a symobolism because at the time up til not very long ago, men ruled the household. Immaterial yes, but if you're going to symbolize it, better use an authoritive figure.

Overall, not one of Kevin Smith's better movies, in my opinion.

I didn't like how it was Alanis Morissette who played God though...I think it should have been the same woman who played Gozar in Ghostbusters lol

"Ray, if someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

[cbwing0]

Mainly all the judgement that the angels pouredo n everyone. Telling everyone their sins then wasting them for it.

I forgot about that part...it is one of my favorite parts of the movie.

[uc pseudonym]

You particularly liked that part? I didn't, really, but perhaps I was just too preoccupied with the philosophy involved. I feel relatively certain God cares a good deal more about their pride then their sexual sins.

But I found this humorous:
Loki: "...but I do believe in this!"
Bartleby (in lobby): "Pff... 'I do believe in this' what is he thinking?"

[ShiroiHikari]

Lol...Dogma.

If you take it with many many grains of salt, it's amusing. Definitely wouldn't recommend it to just anyone though.

I guess the "God is a woman" thing didn't bother me all that much. It was kinda messed up that Alanis Morrisette played the part...

You guys are talking about the board room scene, right? I thought most of that was pretty funny too.

"But you didn't say 'God bless you' when I sneezed!"

[skynes]

LOL! The reason I found the film funny were those 2 angels. The Priest was pretty cool too!

[uc pseudonym]

I think skynes has started a trend: who was everyone's favorite character? As may already be obvious, I'd go with Metatron. Anyone may still discuss the movie, which I would strongly favor.

On the original topic, my favorite scene is the very first one. Buddy Christ. Comedic and religious genius... how often is a movie funny and making a good point?

[cbwing0]

My favorite character? Loki, which explains why I like the boardroom scene.

[Kisa]

I did get to see this movie and I was very dissapointed. It did come off as trying to be funny, but I found it very blasphemous and making fun of different aspects of Christianity. Also the fact that this one was said sarcastically that I should see by a witch girl at my school. So I choose to stay away.

[CDLviking]

I found the entire movie to be an attempt to subvert the Christian faith, with an emphasis on attacking Catholicism, using humor to make it palatable. The movie is definitely funny, but never misses a chance to attack the church. My first problem with the movie was that the main character worked for an abortion clinic and never once expressed any regret about it.

[uc pseudonym]

I found the entire movie to be an attempt to subvert the Christian faith, with an emphasis on attacking Catholicism, using humor to make it palatable. The movie is definitely funny, but never misses a chance to attack the church. My first problem with the movie was that the main character worked for an abortion clinic and never once expressed any regret about it.

Except that (as stated in a previous post) it honestly isn't. While the director felt that there are things ungodly with the church (which is true), he does not necessarily believe the church is wrong. And he could have attacked the church far more viciously.

In regard to the abortion clinic... here I will not attempt to defend the director. He's of a very liberal brand of Christianity, and I'm not so certain he does feel it is wrong. But note that the element was in there more to show the hypocrisy of those abortion protestors (not that I say all protesting is wrong) than to make a point about abortion.

[supa dupa ninja]

well, the woman who worked in the abortion clinic said that she has lost faith in the one true God. they're trying to emphasize that she doesn't care anymore.

[Kat Walker]

I have to admit I've heard a couple of Christians enjoy this movie....which confused me well enough, seeing as all I've ever heard about Dogma was that it's chock-full of dumb religious stereotypes and retarded potty humor -- no to mention that it's supposed to be flamingly anti-Catholic and just bashes Christianity in general...

Basically, combines all of my least favorite things about movies these days. >_>

But if it's as clever in humor and thought-provoking as you say, maybe I'll catch it on HBO. If it's actually worth wading through a sea of F-words to strengthen one's faith, then it deserves a chance. ^^;

[madphilb]

You could get TV Guardian and have it mute for you on the F-words.... don't know how well it really works though

I may have to check this movie out myself... I've dismissed movies in the past due to what I perceived the movie to be about.

A former pastor of mine was a big fan of that Steve Martin movie where he played a "faith healer" who was scamming people for money... "Leap of Faith" (I smell a new thread comming on)... anyway, the movie is much more than just poking fun at "faith healers" or Christians... it has a real element of faith in it.

Anyway...

Maybe I'll use one of my "free movie" coupons from Block Buster and give it a go.

[CDLviking]

Except that (as stated in a previous post) it honestly isn't. While the director felt that there are things ungodly with the church (which is true), he does not necessarily believe the church is wrong. And he could have attacked the church far more viciously.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure if a non-Catholic can fully understand all the shots that he takes at the Church. I know that Kevin Smith claims to be Catholic himself, which makes it that much worse. Liberal Catholics attack the Church far more vehemently than the most anti-Catholic protestants ever did.

[skynes]

I don't mind ppl poking fun at the church that much cause most of what they say is true. When they poke fun at God til its downright blaphemous is out of the question.

Bin a while since I seen the film but i don't think it did the 2nd one to any really bad degree.

The God being a woman was an interesting aspect. But then if God really WAS a woman (s)he would have made woman first, then man

The anti-Christian teachings I overlooked. This isn't a Christian film, nor is it trying to teach Christian theology. If it was then I'd have serious issues with it, but its not. Its a **** take movie.

[Twilly Spree]

Well I'm Catholic and I love the film. So funny...I own it actually a friend of mine bought it for me a year ago. Its currently sitting in between Bridget Jone's Diary and Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

It's not Kevin Smith's best work humor wise (Mallrats is hysterical) but I think it's a fantastic show on his part in going into deeper subject matter. Instead of chocolate covered pretzels and tracers.

Anyway love the film, love Kevin Smith.

[uc pseudonym]

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure if a non-Catholic can fully understand all the shots that he takes at the Church. I know that Kevin Smith claims to be Catholic himself, which makes it that much worse. Liberal Catholics attack the Church far more vehemently than the most anti-Catholic protestants ever did.

I think at this point it might be best to discontinue this conversation. Let me at least state that I am not completely ignorant of the shots he is taking at the Catholic church. Why this does not affect me is a different issue entirely, and one that does not need to be explored.

Please, continue bantering at random.

[skynes]

I haven't seen Mall Rats... I have seen Jay and Silent bob Strike back tho. Is that one of his?

[Straylight]

I thought Dogma was pretty cool. It's funny if you don't take it too seriously. Plus, it has Jay and Silent Bob in it.