The Passion Of The Christ

[brantelg]

This is a movie that will come out soon, and is being made by Mel Gibson.
It is about the last twelve hours of the life of Jesus.
I have heard a LOT of good things about it.
It will, however, be rated R for gore and brutality, because that is what really happened.
It looks really, really good.

[cbwing0]

It should be interesting, if nothing else. If it is accurate it will be a great way to promote Christianity to people who might not hear about it any other way. Then again, if it is very unbiblical, it will create problems for years to come.

[Rashiir]

I hear it's one of the most accurate depictions of the Passion ever done in a movie...

[Michael]

I won't go to see it for obvious reasons, (I.E. The second commandment) but I think it's good for people to understand how brutal crucifictions really are.


There's been a lot of talk about how this might end Mr. Gibson's career. It very well might. People hate anything like serious christianity.

[Kokhiri Sojourn]

My brother talks about this movie nonstop. These has been this ongoing thing about Gibson wanting to do the movie in aramaic (I think) without subtitles, and I don't know what the ending decision was. I know that everyone wanted him to put subtitles in the movie, but then again, he seems pretty set on doing this movie the way he thinks it should be done. I haven't decided wether or not I will see it, but I know that the world hates us, and in this movie coming out, this fact may show through a bit. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[ShiroiHikari]

I'd kinda like to see it.

[cbwing0]

I won't go to see it for obvious reasons, (I.E. The second commandment) but I think it's good for people to understand how brutal crucifictions really are.

How does it violate the second commandment?

[Michael]

"You shall not make for yourself any image of anything that is in Heaven above..."-Christ is in Heaven and man could never capture his perfect holiness.

[cbwing0]

Actually it's more like,

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments" (Exodus 20:4-6, NIV).

Clearly the commandment is related to idol worship, not the making of images. By your reasoning, all movies and pictures would be violating the commandment, since they are images of things from heaven, earth, or sea.

[Michael]

Sorry, I didn't get my point across properly. I meant you shouldn't make an inage of what you call 'Jesus'. I'll have to get back to you on the wording in the commandment.

[Bobtheduck]

I disagree... It's not that we should think "Mel Gibson = Jesus" (or does someone else play Jesus, I forget) but that a visual representation helps... I played Jesus in a drama/dance, and I played Caiaphas in a passion play. It is better to have something multisensory to attatch to, for many people, so you tell them in words and then you show them an example.

I don't think anyone older than 7 or 8 is going to think that Jesus looks like Mel Gibson (or whoever they got to play him)... I just wish they didn't think he was a fair skinned european... He was a middle eastern Jew, he certainly didn't look like those Jesus paintings...

Anyhow... In that respect I see what you're saying, but applying it to a movie is not the same...

[Lochaber Axe]

Ugh... *see avatar*... Micheal, if what you said was true than every peasant that started to follow the Lord because of stained glass windows would be burning in Hell right now. You have to remember that during the Middle Ages, the commoners were illiterate and if it wasn't for the bible being put into pictures most would never have been converted. What about also the images of Christ in Justinian (is that correct? I believe that is what the emperors are usually called after Constantine) Rome? Or the great works of the Renaissance? Heck, what about the Cross that is in your church or all Christian churches, in some way or another, in the entire world. If God did not want physical representations of his divinity for us to relate to, then we would have none today. That I am assured of.

Of course, I am not saying that there aren't some that worship the Cross and not the one who died on the Cross. That is a totally different matter however.

EDIT: Mostly, I reinterated what Bob said. And yes, Jesus was not Caucasian... it makes me mad though when some say he was Black. I am not nor ever will be rascist but that is pure lunacy. How can an African be Jewish? Even if they were, how can they be a Rabbi? Jesus was a teacher... a Rabbi... that is why we don't see anything from that one time in Jerusalem as a kid to when he is an adult. You have to be thirty to become a Rabbi. Sorry, I got off on a tangent.

[Kokhiri Sojourn]

Hey hey, let's not beat up on Michael here. I tend to agree with him. I mean, no one really knows what he looked like, and if He did want us to know, He would have given us a visual representation. But when a character is taken on by someone in a movie, you tend to think of them when the character is mentioned. I do. I've seen where people bow to images of Jesus, and in this case I think it is completely inappropriate.

Lochaber, what you are implying is that God gave us the paintings and images of Jesus that we have today in His not stopping their creations from the artists, or by some other method, like divine inspiration. Well, most of the images we have were created hundreds of years following Christ's death, and obviously, these people don't remember what he looks like, because as Bob said, Jesus was, in fact, a Jew, not a pretty European. Also, you could further that argument by saying that if God didn't want sin in the world, it wouldn't be here. I'm not trying to be mean. Just giving you my opinion in this regard. I believe in God's Soverignty over all of life, but at the same time, we are responsible for our actions. Okay, I'm ranting.

I don't have my argument all together, so I'll see if I can put it together and get it back here soon. Of course I know that many will differ, but I'm stating my conviction on the commandment, as did Michael, and the rest of you who posted.

With no hard feelings attached,
KS

[Twilly Spree]

Different demonations have different beliefs about imagery. Plain and simple.

Mel's a pretty die-hard Catholic, I think he'll do a good job. Will I see it? I don't know if I could stomach it, literally. Just the stations of the cross make me a little nauseated to think about what actually happened.



Other note, a lot of medival images were "icons" that were supposed to have healing powers all on their own. People would eat the paint off of them and stuff. Totally random I know but I gotta put that year of Art History to use somehow.

[Bobtheduck]

Mel may be catholic, but he consulted both catholic and protestant authorities in researching this movie.

[EireWolf]

Well, I will definitely go see it. I've heard good things about it, too.

As for the Second Commandment... It says, "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Now, if that means that we should never make anything that looks like anything, as you seem to be implying Michael, then I, as a sculptor, am in deep doo-doo with the Almighty. (I made a little wolf model, for instance... but I most certainly do not bow down and worship the thing.) You can't really say that it only means we're not to make things to look like God, because that isn't what the commandment says.

Since I believe that God has called me to be an artist, and since I also believe that God does not contradict Godself, then I must believe that God said what God meant: don't make an idol that you intend to bow down to, because I alone am God and nobody but me deserves your worship. (paraphrased, of course.)

[Technomancer]

I think I'll go see the film. Reminds me that I've been meaning to "The Jesus of Montreal" for some time too.

[Spiritsword]

I'm very interested in seeing this movie too. When does it come to theatres?

[Kisa]

I think it'll be good . . . I heard there are alos parts in it that are in the original language, Aramaic I think.

[Michael]

It's not that I think images are wrong. I don't think you should make images of what you think is God. You seemed to have missed my second point, wich is that an actor can never come close to what Jesus was like when he was on earth. I don't want to get into a debate.

I don't think that you should make anything that looked like Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. Ever. Look back at the Bible, did the Israelites ever make something in the image of God? Even the Tabernacle bore the penalty of death if man dare come near it.

I don't think Eirwolf's in trouble because she made a statue of a wolf. But if you made a statue of 'Christ' then I think you would.

But we're getting off topic. I didn't mean for my simple statement to turn into a debate. I won't go to see it because of my beliefs. However, I do think it's good for people to understand how a crucifiction works.

[cbwing0]

I don't think that you should make anything that looked like Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. Ever. Look back at the Bible, did the Israelites ever make something in the image of God? Even the Tabernacle bore the penalty of death if man dare come near it.

The difference here is that Jesus took the form of a man on earth]actor[/i], we would have problems.

[Michael]

<The point of the movie is not to create a snapshot of Christ, but to share the truth about his life, death, and (hopefully, although I suppose they might leave it out) resurrection. If this has to be done through a human actor, then so be it. If people hear the gospel in this way, then it does not matter how much the actor looks like the real Jesus.>

Or you could just read the Bible.

[cbwing0]

Unfortunately, some people will not read the bible.

[Michael]

I believe only God can decide a man's salvation. A man can not 'except' God, he can not 'raise' himself up to God. If God wants a man to be a christian, he will reach out to him in a way only He can.

<The difference here is that Jesus took the form of a man on earth; therefore, he actually had a physical body that could be represented in artwork. In contrast, the Father and Holy Spirit are generally thought to be immaterial. In other words, they do not have an physical image that could be represented, even if we wanted to make one.>

Yes, but no one knows what Jesus looked like when He was on earth. It's not wise to make an image of what you think 'He' looks like. Are there any paintings, models or sculptures of Him that where made by a man who actually saw Him?

[cbwing0]

I believe only God can decide a man's salvation. A man can not 'except' God, he can not 'raise' himself up to God. If God wants a man to be a christian, he will reach out to him in a way only He can.

...yet a movie is an unacceptable way for that to happen?

Yes, but no one knows what Jesus looked like when He was on earth. It's not wise to make an image of what you think 'He' looks like. Are there any paintings, models or sculptures of Him that where made by a man who actually saw Him?

Once again, let me say that accuracy of physical appearance is not the point. I seriously doubt that they even had that in mind when they were making the film. The point is that through this representation, people might hear the gospel and come to know the real Christ.

[Michael]

I don't want to debate anymore. It's pointless. I can't say what God may and may not do with the film. I just won't go see it.

[cbwing0]

Fair enough.

I probably will go see it, if for no other reason than to be able to discuss it with people afterwards.

[Danyasaur]

*walks in, sees the debate going on and turns the oposite derection and walks away*

[cbwing0]

Don't worry...the debate is over.

[EireWolf]

I can't say what God may and may not do with the film. I just won't go see it.

If that is what your conscience dictates, then you are right to not go see it.

Everyone else, if you'd like to see the movie trailers or read more about the movie, here's the official web site:

http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com/