Problem with CMOS stuff...

[inkhana]

OK, this is no fun...

Well, I have this old computer (real old, in fact). Its CMOS battery has failed. OK, as my memory serves, I should have been able to get the statistics (cylinders, heads, etc) of my hard drive, go into CMOS setup when the computer starts, and reconfigure the fixed disk (kinda futile to bother with the realtime clock); in theory, the hard drive should still be able to run....right? Even though I reconfigured it and I know the settings are right (I opened the case and checked the label on the hard drive itself) it still gives me "fixed disk initialization error - no boot device available"...I believe that's what it said. I'd be happy if I could just get the info off the drive onto my laptop (through a Laplink cable, most likely) and forget about it...but I gotta get it started before I can do that...O.o

Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks!

[Technomancer]

Try going back into your CMOS setup. Is the data still there?

[inkhana]

It would when the computer was still on. But since I've shut it off since I tried (and I assume since the realtime clock failed) the info for the drive is lost as well. I can check though.

[Straylight]

Hmm, what kind of drive is it? You could plug it into a newer computer if it was compatible, and the newer computer's BIOS would automatically detect the settings for that drive, then you could note them down and use the drive on the old computer again

[inkhana]

Well, if I did that, I'd probably just transfer the contents of the drive to the newer computer while I have it hooked up, since that's really all I'm after. The drive was made in 93 (ouch)...I believe it was a Seagate; I'd have to open it up to check the model. I'm a little skittish about attaching a slave drive to a computer since I fried a motherboard that way once....O.o

(I'm sorry, I'm hard to please.... )

[Straylight]

It shouldn't be too much of a problem... however 93 is pretty old, and from what I remember, some hard drive standard changed around that time. You might be able to do it though. Don't open the drive up!

[Mithrandir]

INK. Open the computer, and read me off the make and model of the drive. I have a book with all the stats on all the old drives manufacuted up until 1997.

Glad you know me?

[TheMelodyMaker]

Wouldn't it be easier just to replace the battery? The same kind used today was used 10 years ago, wasn't it? (Or maybe there's something in here that I'm misunderstanding...)

[inkhana]

Well, thing is, that would cost money, and I'm right against the holiday season and I don't have much money...O.o

And it seems like there ought to be an easier way to do it than to replace the CMOS...since I was sure it should work.

OldP, in the morning I'll crack the case of that comp and give you the model for that drive...thanks so much for looking it up for me...

[shooraijin]

CMOS batteries aren't that expensive. If I can get a standard Mac 1/2 AA PRAM battery for US$5 without even trying, you can do better for a bog-boring PC

Seriously, any electronics supply store, even Ratty Schlock, er, Radio Shack, will carry most kinds of CMOS batteries. Many are either the 1/2 AA type or a coin lithium, like a CR2032. It should not be more than a few dollars.

[inkhana]

OK, I cracked open the case and got the exact specifications as reported on the label of the drive.

It is indeed a Seagate, an ST3243A to be exact. Drive specs are 1024cyl, 12heads, 34sec and 214mb total. There are other numbers which I don't know the significance of as follows: (possibly serial #)

915003-717 (accompanied with a bar code)
cbshbld10
07-5.04-A1 (also with a bar code)

Below is a small nondescript label with the following numbers:
555353-f1-1
and in small print below: 06414

Now I went to check out the battery, and I didn't find the little coin shape I thought it ought to be. However, I did find something else: a small green plastic covered barrel shape with positive signs on it. It appeared to have mild corrosion around the contacts. I'm enclosing a drawing to elaborate on the details. I'm assuming this is the CMOS since it seems to be a type of battery. I may be very wrong, however... I didn't see any kind of part number on it, but it may have been on the side hidden from me (underneath the CD-Rom, no less... )

[inkhana]

Oh! I forgot to mention. I have another prob now. When my dad started the computer this morning, there was a weird error message. I couldn't c&p since it was at startup and all, but at the end it says: CMOS checksum bad (now this is the computer I'm at right now that I'm talking about.) Then it gives me the option to enter setup or resume using the default config. Does this mean the CMOS is about to die on me? This computer is only like three years old...

I have all kinds of problems, don't I? Thanks for putting up with me...^^

[Mithrandir]

OK.

1. That is the battery. The corosion, the plus sign and the letters "NIMH" imply that it's a Nickle Metal Hydride.

2. Check and see if it's soldered onto the board. If not, we can get it replaced for you.

3. Bad Checksum = Other Problem, not dead CMOS. This is often a sign of a virus. Scan immediately! If not, check the clock date/times. If it's right, you may have corrupt CMOS. If it's wrong, it could be a dead battery.

4. Shooby's right. You should be able to get that easily.

Your assignments:

Step one, replace that battery.
Step two, Go into CMOS and setup the HD with the correct parameters:
Link to Seagate Page with Drive Spec Sheet

Step three, write those parameters on a piece of paper (or print the page), along with the date you replaced the battery, fold it up, and tape it to the inside of the tower. That way you'll have access to it when you need it later. (That's a handy trick I learned when I wen't to fix a box at a Hospital one time. The guy who fixed it before me did that, and saved my at least a days worth of leg work!)

If it fails to work, you have two options.
1. We can give you step-by-step instructions for hooking the drive up to another machine.
2. (Last Resort): Snail mail me the drive, and I'll burn you a CD of the info on it, and mail them back to you. I'll be on AIM later tonight if you wanna know more.

Questions?

PS: Good Drawing of that battery!

[inkhana]

OK, I'm gonna get this comp scanned as soon as I finish with messages. Then I'm gonna crack that computer open again and check and see if the battery is indeed soldered (it may take some doing; it's kinda hidden...LOL)

[inkhana]

This just gets better and better...

OK, I ran antivirus, and it came up negative - no viruses whatsoever. I was in the process of installing another program for a second opinion when I had to restart...and to my shock, it came up and said: "no operating system installed" right after boot. So I entered CMOS setup trying to search for some answer, and I saw that it acted as if there were no hard drive of any kind. However, when I exited the CMOS setup (having made no changes) it booted normally (although it did still have the "251 - CMOS bad checksum" error. This is getting to be a concern for me, as I'm not really sure what to do about it and dad is really bugging me for an answer...O.o...

Anyway, thanks guys for helping me out... Does anyone have a miracle solution for this?

[madphilb]

First, I don't know if/when it changed, but using a bad CMOS battery in a computer used to have the horrible effect of it exploding (killing the motherboard)... not a very common thing, but it's happened to a friend of mine as well as this being confirmed to me by several techs (one who owned her own business). Like I said, i'm not sure if this still holds, but you'll want to replace that thing as son as possible, but not keep running it.

Here's a question for you though, do you want to keep using that machine, or are you just looking to get the data off it?

If you're just looking to transfer the data, then you might want to look into getting a null-modem adaptor and transferring the data that way... I'd have to look it up (it's been a LONG time since I've done this with my system), but I can tell you the steps to setup both machines for transfer (unless MS in their vast wisdom decided to dump the link-up software from Windows, though there are still other options software-wise).

PHIL

[TheMelodyMaker]

I'm going to suggest this only as a last resort. One truly drastic way to fix the checksum error is to clear out the CMOS data altogether (resetting it to the factory default). On some motherboards this can be done with a special jumper that is temporarily moved from one spot to another for only a few seconds; and on some motherboards a special keypress combination is required at bootup. (Your motherboard's documentation should say if either option is available.)

Again, I only recommend this as a very last resort, so don't try it yet; let's see what our other tech guys have to say first.

[inkhana]

First, I don't know if/when it changed, but using a bad CMOS battery in a computer used to have the horrible effect of it exploding (killing the motherboard)... not a very common thing, but it's happened to a friend of mine as well as this being confirmed to me by several techs (one who owned her own business). Like I said, i'm not sure if this still holds, but you'll want to replace that thing as son as possible, but not keep running it.

Euw...O.o...that's not good...

Here's a question for you though, do you want to keep using that machine, or are you just looking to get the data off it?

I would be satisfied with getting the data off, but getting it back up and running wouldn't be a bad deal either. I wouldn't be terribly hurt it I had to finally put it aside.

If you're just looking to transfer the data, then you might want to look into getting a null-modem adaptor and transferring the data that way... I'd have to look it up (it's been a LONG time since I've done this with my system), but I can tell you the steps to setup both machines for transfer (unless MS in their vast wisdom decided to dump the link-up software from Windows, though there are still other options software-wise).
PHIL

I don't have a null-modem adaptor at the moment, but I do have a laplink cable I've used for many transfers.

I did have an idea just now, though...what if I replaced the drive in my sister's computer with the one from the failed comp? Then I could haul that PC in here and use the laplink connection program (it's an old dos program so it'll run on any of our PCs) and dump the entire drive info to this computer to prepare for burning to CD. I'm wondering if hardware conflicts of some kind might keep the hard drive from booting...although I don't really know why I'm asking you guys about the hardware conflicts since you don't know what kind of hardware that machine is running... LOL

[madphilb]

I don't have a null-modem adaptor at the moment, but I do have a laplink cable I've used for many transfers.

Actually, that should work just the same (the serial cables basically are a NULL modem)... the paralell cables should work too...

I did have an idea just now, though...what if I replaced the drive in my sister's computer with the one from the failed comp? Then I could haul that PC in here and use the laplink connection program (it's an old dos program so it'll run on any of our PCs) and dump the entire drive info to this computer to prepare for burning to CD.

That should work, so long as you set the drive settings on the computer.... I'd recommend using Windows for the transfer (with the Laplink cable... gosh, brings back memories, all those HD transfers with laplink) ... anyway, Windows will preserve the long file names on your system, where as the old DOS program won't.

PHIL

[inkhana]

That's cool...as far as preserving the names, it doesn't matter as the old comp is Win 3.11, so the names are already DOS compliant. ^^ Thank goodness! LOL

[Mithrandir]

Yeah. The one thing you want to make sure you do is get the jumpers right on the drive. Otherwise you computer will not know which drive is the master, and tell you there is no drive.

Laplink? Boy THAT brings back memories. I used it extensively on old 6.22 boxes, but I remember trying to hook that up once on a Win95 and discovering the code had been yanked out. Grr. Anyway, moving the drive into the other box would work better, IMHO. Just be carefull with those jumpers, and mind your IDE cables.

To be on the safe side, though, you may want to backup your sister's computer first.

[inkhana]

Yeah, that's just what I did! And it worked! I'm gonna transfer the old one I accidentally fried the motherboard of next...^^

I really meant to tell you guys about that and I forgot...

[Mithrandir]

Well, glad to hear it worked!