Mac browsers

[Mr. Rogers]

I have two questions about a couple of Mac browsers, Safari and Internet Explorer.

Safari seems to have trouble with logins - on both CAA and other sites I've used. I will log in, and it will still say I'm not logged in.

Internet Explorer for Mac just plain sucks. On CAA for example, everything is rendered wrong, and a lot of other sites do this too. Things will be displayed in all the wrong places.

Does anyone have any clue why these things are happening? Since I am getting into Web Development, I'm sure it's important to know.

Also, does anyone know of any good magazines or web sites for keeping track of what is going on in the Web Development field?

Thank you.

[Mithrandir]

PLEASE DO NOT USE IE FOR MACINTOSH!!!!!


It's soooo out of date it's disgusting. Use Firefox, or opera or ANYTHING. I've never heard of any other login problems that were directly linked to Safari. Are you up-to-date? What URL are you going to? Can you use firefox - and does it give you similar results? What security settings are you using in Safari? Offhand, I can't think of anything that would render the login moot - except maybe stupid caching. You aren't behind a proxy, are you?

[blkmage]

It could be cookies.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

a good OS X browser

http://www.caminobrowser.org/

[shooraijin]

Yes, I like Camino too. Download 1.0a1+, it's better than 0.8.4.

There's still a glitch in the text editing system, but it only seems to trigger with animated GIFs around and it's getting better. Otherwise, it works wonderfully.

[Gypsy]

The text editing glitch is my only problem with Camino so far. Sometimes (I assume it to be poorly written or old code) I have a problem with viewing php in Camino - columns get mixed up or overlayed. I also can't use an online HTML editor correctly (which is fine, since I code by text anyway). Between Safari and Camino, I'm all set.

What really makes me mad is when certain pages require IE (v.<6) to function correctly, but there's not a mac version available. These are usually msn sites (small wonder) and high security pages, like shopping carts or bank account access. Grrr.

[Mithrandir]

I tend to simply not shop at stores that don't support Mac browsers, and I let them know. Don't bother emailing the webmaster, though. He obviously doesn't care. I always email the sales people directly (and director of sales, if I can get an email address of the net) and let them know how much of an impact this has on their ability to sell.

[Fsiphskilm]

If y

[Mithrandir]

You're forgetting a few things volt.

If you knew HTML inside and out, and if you knew text flow was relative, and knew how to compensate for it, it wouldn't take nearly that long. It doesn't take ME that long to do websites.

Volt, you bring up a very valid but STOOOOOPID point that I'm just going to have to address. It's a common misconception. So many people have used this argument to me that I have to address it.

Let's say a man walks into your store wearing a cheap casio watch and shody clothes. Now let's say another guy walks in right behind him wearing a rolex and armani suit. If you are a typical store owner, who will you spend most of your time "selling to?"

Apple computers are more expensive, and quite often are bought by people who are willing to pay for quality merchandise. Any online store owner who is not willing to do enough research to know what a rolex watch looks like DOESN'T DESERVE THE SALE.

And what's this "two of all pages" stuff? Hello!?! That's what style sheets are for. If you REALLY have to have it look that great - DOWN TO THE PIXEL, just give two different style sheet files. But you are missing a pretty large percent of the market. I HATE fixed width stuff. I WANT to be able to make the text larger. Do you know how many people on the internet are over 50 and MUST have text sizes be variable? They can't SEE it otherwise.

OK. That's enought for today.

[Fsiphskilm]

Internet

[shooraijin]

So if I don't have my monitor set to your resolution, then I either have to scroll my tiny screen over your big honking layout, or deal with your page being a postage stamp in my cavernous window.

You don't think this would annoy users a teeny bit that your page can't compensate? HTML is supposed to be for markup, not layout. If you want a pixel-perfect layout, use PDF.

[Fsiphskilm]

the Ma

[LorentzForce]

Majority does not make right.

[Fsiphskilm]

Majo

[shooraijin]

Volt, I don't care if the stinking Queen of England has a fixed width site. What it actually says is, "we don't care about the needs of our users."

This is the same mentality that says we shouldn't bother with ALTs in <img> because no one uses text browsers (please make sure you say that to the next blind person you meet), or <noframes> layouts because no one pays attention to navigation (and then wonder why people don't bookmark your pages, or search engines have trouble scanning through them).

And for the record, you didn't even try enlarging the font on half those sites, did you? Apple's expands and contracts with my browser window (Camino OS X), and increasing the text size *doesn't* break the layout. I increased the font size on eBay to *4x* and it still is navigable. And GetFireFox.com *better* be W3C compliant, and of course it is -- I shrunk my window and increased my font back and forth several times, and it works nicely. Even Windows Vista worked okay. I'll let you try the others, since you asserted that they break.

Check your facts first before trying to win on volume. It *is* professional to assist users in their configuration and it only makes sense: people will leave if you do not. Obviously most major sites have gotten that idea, so you should get it too.

[Fsiphskilm]

Not eve

[shooraijin]

Then your computer is broken, not mine. They do not break -- they do expand, and if it flunks out on yours, well ...

So by your standards one's site should support every language in the world, every text size in the world, every format (webTV, pda, cellphone) available?

You should try. You're stating you shouldn't even bother.

EDIT: I just read this:

You should increase the text size a good 10+ times.

You're really just being silly. Increasing the text size a good 10+ times means that the average font point is going to be somewhere around 28pt for typical text. On a 72dpi screen, that's insanely huge and impractical on just about any monitor.

That being said, many sites would still function under those conditions, but I think you're being foolish on purpose.

EDIT THE SECOND. You know what, I'm just blowing my stack here, so you do what you want with your own sites. I'll recuse myself from further discussion except where it pertains to a specific choice of Mac browser. I'm not really interested in raising my blood pressure today, so do what you like.

[Fsiphskilm]

Image

[Mithrandir]

I'm sorry, volt. What exactly was that last screen shot supposed to prove? Are you going to try to be civil, or not?

Oh and by the way:

... ... ...Yeah. Either you guys are new to the internet OR are ignoring the Majority of ALL online sites on purpose so you can prove your point, make developers spent hundreds of dollars & hours more, so that you can be happy with your Abnormally Sized screens and visual tastes.

If you really think that shooby and I are totally inept when it comes to computers, then there's nothing we can say to disprove you; ignorance is it's own reward. Your computer discusion are now on my ignore list.

Congradulations, you've made two mods ignore you on this topic now. How does it feel to be such a great conversationalist?

[Fsiphskilm]

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