Intelligent Talk on File Sharing

[Fsiphskilm]

Continued from...
http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=9701&page=2

To keep things from going off topic I'd like to continue it here. Seeing how the chat has so much potential and is Beneficial to the Christian Community.

Please don't say anything stupid and get the thread closed. This conversation is actually going places. And I find it very beneficial for every christian techie to know.

[panegryst]

Volt, I agree with your position that it is acceptable to download copies of CDs, movies, etc that you already own (for example, if you lost or broke the disc). I believe (correct me if I am wrong, please) that it is legal to download copyrighted material (that you do not already own) for the space of 24 hours. After that point, you are legally obligated to delete it. This fits in with 'previewing' movies and music. However, I do not believe that it is at all acceptable to download material you do not own and keep it for more than 24 hours - no matter how much you 'give back to the industry'. Another matter entirely, of course, is downloading unlicensed material (i.e., anime and manga). While it technically is against international contracts, it is up to the licensing company to bring suit against offenders. That is to say, the licensing companies decided whether or not to enforce this. Because fansubbing is such a good way of 'spreading the word' about new titles (for example, huge numbers of people download the new Naruto episodes as soon as they come out), there is an 'unwritten agreement' between licensing companies and fansubbers. Basically this agreement states that distribution of fansubbed titles will end when that title is licensed. This is backed up by the fact that there is much dialog between licensing companies like ADV and Geneon and fansub groups. So, I believe it is OK to download unlicensed anime as long as you delete it when it is licensed.

[blkmage]

The problem with the debate on filesharing is that it involves the Internet, an international network. Because the Internet is international, what may apply in the US doesn't apply everywhere. Here in Canada, the Copyright Act allows for copying for private use. That is, unless you don't use whatever you've downloaded for commercial or public presentation, it is legal to download or copy copyrighted works.

[Tenshi no Ai]

The problem with the debate on filesharing is that it involves the Internet, an international network. Because the Internet is international, what may apply in the US doesn't apply everywhere. Here in Canada, the Copyright Act allows for copying for private use. That is, unless you don't use whatever you've downloaded for commercial or public presentation, it is legal to download or copy copyrighted works.

Yeah, that's what I've heard and that's pretty much what I do. It's for my own private use, I don't share, and then it's usually deleted. But then that brings a new thing to debate about...

[Jasdero]

yeah... "illegally" downloading things will always be an issue unless the internet is completely shut down, and we don't want that ^_^

[alf4office]

And everyone knows how bad communisim is.

On a more serious note, I'm not down with the whole file sharing thing. You're taking something that doesn't belong to you, which is in essence, stealing. If you already own the cd and you lose it, I think it's fine if you download it. But to download something that you haven't previously owned is morally wrong.

[Saint Kevin]

I'm still looking for a response to what I posted in Kira's testimont thread. Go ahead and click on the link in the first post of this thread to read what I had to say there. If anyone believes I was applying the scriptures incorrectly, or perhaps even agrees with what I had to say, I would like to know. Thanks guys.
-SK

[Fsiphskilm]

Volt. I guess the PM that I sent you had no effect on you whatsoever. I am making it public with the hope that people might see that piracy IS illegal, and is a subtle form of theft. You know, theft, as in the 8th commandment in Exodus 20:15, Leviticus 19:11, and Deuteronomy 5:19.

Also, lest the argument be thrown out that we are under grace and not under law, the same commandment was quoted by our Lord Jesus to a rich young man. Look up the story in Matthew 19:19, Mark 10:19, or Luke 18:20 if you wish.

First, I'd like to clarify a few terms I either have used or will use, so that we are all clear.







With that in mind, let's move on to the PM shall we? You can see the original PM that I sent to him, followed by his response.



Note: The only changes made to the original PM where to include links to scripture references, to bold said links for clarity, and to correct any spelling errors.

Volt: Bear in mind that I bear no grudge against you, and I did not post this PM lightly. I will probably never again post a PM for all to see, but in this case, I disagree with you, and believe that downloading copyrighted materials without the permission of the author is not only illegal, but also immoral. I do not believe that this issue, except for maybe a few true grey areas like you provided in your response, is a matter of debate. I do not believe that this should be a matter of conscience only, as scripture seems to speak clearly on the topic. If you have any questions, want me to clarify anything, or simply find me in error, please say so.

Kirastill: Forgive me for turning your testimony thread into this, but I do feel a need to defend the decision you've made, as I believe it is the right one, not just in your individual Christian walk, but ultimately the right decision for all believers to make regarding piracy and copyright infringement.

Grace and peace to you my brethren in Christ Jesus our Lord,
SK.

The problem with this is that you're not being Logical. This way of thinking is close-minded and over Legalistic

Strict, literal adherence to the law or to a particular code

Always letting the Gov. decide eveyrthing for you isn't a good way to go through life. Soemtimes you have to stop and think deep.

DID YOU KNOW? That ...

In Alabama, it is illegal to wear a fake mustache that causes laughter in church.

In Texas, it is illegal to curse in front of, or indecently expose oneself to, a corpse.

In Michigan, a man legally owns his wife's hair.

Kansas law prohibits shooting rabbits from a motorboat.

In Idaho, the law states all boxes of candy given as romantic gifts must weigh more than 50 pounds.

It's against the law to catch fish with your bare hands in Kansas.

In California, animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school or place of worship.

In Washington state, it's against the law to sleep in an outhouse without the owner's permission.

Putting salt on a railroad track can be punishable by death in the state of Alabama.

In Texas, it's illegal to put graffiti on someone else's cow.

In Alabama, dominoes may not be played on Sunday.

In New York City, it's illegal to shake a dust mop out a window.

In Connorsville, Wisconsin a man is legally prohibited from shooting a gun while his female partner is having an orgasm.

In New York, it's against the law to throw a ball at someone's head for fun.

In Pueblo, Colorado, it is illegal to let a dandelion grow within city limits.

In the state of Washington, it's illegal to catch a fish by throwing a rock at it.

It is illegal to lie down and fall asleep with your shoes on in North Dakota.

In Berkeley, California, you can't whistle for an escaped bird before 7:00 a.m.

An old law in Bellingham, Washington, made it illegal for a woman to take anything other than backwards steps while dancing.

In California, it is a misdemeanor to shoot at any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale.

In Florida, having sexual relations with a porcupine is illegal.

San Francisco bans any "mechanical device that reproduces obscene language."

In Nogales, Arizona, it is illegal to wear suspenders.

In Atlanta, Georgia, it is illegal to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or street lamp.

In Logan County, Colorado, it's illegal for a man to kiss a woman while she's asleep.

There's a San Francisco law that states it's illegal to play poker in public or gamble in a barricaded room.

In the state of Texas, it is illegal to take more than three sips of beer at a time while standing.

A person is not eligible to become governor in Pennsylvania if they have participated in a duel.

It's against the law for a woman to drive in a house coat in California.

In Texas, it's illegal to milk another person's cow.

Sometimes you just gotta say "screw the Government". Seriously DOWNLOADING is once again A shortcut to things we can already do

Senerio #1 - Legal (not wrong)

• Listen to radio
• Tape Song
• Transfer Song to computer
• Encode into MP3

Senerio #2 - Illegal ( supposidly wrong)

• Just Download song from Internet

Once again Downloading only became Illegal when It GOT OUT OF HANDby means of people downloading stuff that they intended on Buying. You're trying to proove your point using two methods, which both contradict each other. 1 which is the Logical interpretation of Stealing, and 2 do whatever the gov. tells you.

ONE day the Government is going to persecute Christians. Are you going to join them and burn your bible just for the sake of being "moral+law abiding" Moral +Government DO NOT mix. At least not anymore. And definatly not in the future.

Somtimes you have to make decisions for yourself. By including the technicalities and the exceptions. I use to think the way you did. And Then I turned around. I support the industry BY downlaoding things. Because there is no way I'm paying $13 bucks for a CD I don't favor.

---There are things that you want to hear that ARE worth Buying and having in your collection.

---And there are things that you'd never buy but just want to listen to or temporarily use.

[Yojimbo]

Edit: Ehhh now that I realize it what I said had very little to nothing of what the discussion was about.

[Master Kenzo]

Senerio #1 - Legal (not wrong)

• Listen to radio
• Tape Song
• Transfer Song to computer
• Encode into MP3

Senerio #2 - Illegal (supposidly wrong)

• Just download song from the internet

But the point is, with radio, not only does the station pay to have the song play, they get paid by advertising that you have to listen to, and only certain songs are on the radio, usually singles - not an entire album.

So if you download the music, everyone suffers. The radio station doesn't have people listening, so advertising becomes cheaper, making the station get cheaper and have fewer songs, and possibly go out of business, making the public suffer, the band doesn't get the money they need to do the Grand Around the World tour you've been hoping for, the RIAA can't afford prime rib every night (I'm really sure they need THAT MUCH MONEY anyway) and you lose out because the band could go bankrupt and stop producing songs (which, for some bands, is probably a good thing)

Radio is legal because first of all - the station pays for each song and gets paid by advertising. Downloading is illegal because you're stealing money from all over the table (it's as if you're playing poker and steal everyone's chips, saying "oh, I was going to win anyway"), and when was the last time you heard a commercial in an MP3? Never.

Also, the RIAA is taking a gamble - how many people have the resources, the time, the intelligence, and the love of one particular song to tape it (need a tape deck), transfer it to computer (not only does your tape deck need line out, you need a wire converter, recording software, etc.), and encode into MP3 (special program).

P.S. I don't download illegally because "it's what the government tells me to," its because it *is* stealing (as I tried to show above) from multitudes of people.

[Ashley]

Guys, we have discussed this over and over and over. File sharing, fansubs---these "gray" areas don't need to be discussed here. They only lead to tit-for-tat sort of responses like I've already seen, ESPECIALLY if there was already another extensive thread on this. If you want to talk about it further, take it to PMs.