Probably my last post

[Nikolai Melodie]

This may very well be the final post I make on CAA

…and believe me my fellow Christians, I hold nothing against you, Even though I am fully aware that I am just a couple of paragraphs away from winning your endless prayers for salvation and/or your very, very angry complaints. Please, read this entire post before you post back. You may not be able to comprehend this, but yes, I AM a Christian—a sinner, like every single one of you.

I am a gay Christian.

I firmly believe that being gay is not something that can be changed through human means or counseling, but I also believe more then anything that through Christ, all is possible. I don’t know if I was born this way; and frankly, I don’t care about the politics involved in this issue or not. That’s not what I’m going to tell you about.

I am happy this way. It has taken me many years (all right, three) to get to this place. You wanna know where I was? I was a 12-year-old kid, who was drugged at one of her own church friend’s parties (yeah; and I’m not talking about a loud music party, either, I’m talking about a group of Nerdy Christian kids who made weekly get-togethers to play Final Fantasy) and woke up in a really, really frightening predicament. Let’s just say, this all went down hill, and soon enough I was the Atheist of the family, with a severe spite for any one of any religion, and loads of issues with alcohol, drugs, sex abuse and eating disorders. I was only 13.

I’ve come leaps and bounds since then. I’m off the booze, the drugs are history, ‘bad’ friends are history but… oops, one little thing. I’m gay. I’m completely reformed. I’m a Christian, I read the bible, I’m working through my relationship with Jesus but I am still completely ostracized once any Christian finds out about my sexuality. No offense to anybody, but that’s not a way to help someone who is just on the way back to Christ. It was more or less a huge off set for me, and it kind of made me question what the heck I was doing as a Christian in the first place.

Make no mistake; I have thought though this a lot. When I came out of rehab, all of my problems seemed to fall away. I assumed the homosexuality would follow suit. It didn’t, because it wasn’t something I could get rid of without Jesus. It still hasn’t, I’m still praying, and I am growing in the Lord—Still, gay as can be. People have told me I’m not praying hard enough or I’m not doing it right but the fact is that I am saved. I am a Christian…a gay one but heck, if God wants it another way, then I’ll be straight. Until then, I’m just focused on being a happy new born in Christ.

In closing I’d like to make a few points.

Yes, as a homosexual, I am sinning. As a Christian, I believe that if the Bible is taken 100% literally that is true. However, if the Bible is to be taken 100% literally, then any of you who have picketed or donated to these Anti-Gay campaigns should grab your stick and be outside Red Lobster.

Deuteronomy 14:10 but anything that does not have fins and scales you shall not eat; it is unclean for you.

Many people say that people choose to be gay. Why is homosexuality the one thing that is picked as ‘The Chosen Sin’? You choose to work on Sunday, you choose to eat your crabs and lobsters, and you, undoubtedly a straight person, choose to sin, too. The bible is NOT taken literally anymore, and it doesn’t need to be. I realize this is going to get me in a lot of trouble, but it’s a point I want to be made clear with no hostility intended.

God gave us the bible. Verses-- entire books-- have changed, been added, been deleted. But it doesn't matter; the exact details don't matter. The central message is still there-- God loves you. He loves me. He loves us all. That’s obvious, right? So why do people constantly try to make it more complicated then that? Do you understand what I mean I sin, you sin- you are no better then me and you have no right to make it seem as if you are. In the eyes of God we are all his equally imperfect children.

As for me personally… well, I’m most likely banned now, but I want to say that Christ has brought more joy into my life then any other person, achievement or thing. If God wants me to be straight then yes, I will be straight. Until a day comes when I am ‘cured’ through Jesus, then I am perfectly happy the way I am. All I’m looking for, is that my own Christian family will accept me, despite my imperfections. Hey, if Jesus can then…well, could Christians, too?

<-- that's me

[Fish and Chips]

Interesting read.

For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I know it's popular in politics and the media to focus on Homosexuality as THE consumer sin of choice (dun-dun-dun), but no one mortal sin is any better or worse than the rest of them; a sin is a sin, and committing any one of them just as destructive as all those left to the side. I refuse to pass judgment on you, because to pass judgment would be to assume I took any sort of moral authority and/or supremacy over you in these matters, which not one member on this forum can claim (unless Jesus himself is secretly part of the modding staff). You seem to have a good grasp of your situation, where you stand and what you want, so I will leave it between you and God. Hope you can sort out everything with the Big Guy himself.

Although I might refrain from the Red Lobster comments, as the dietary laws of Moses were predominantly for health reasons I believe (although I may be wrong, I'm no expert. Double check with someone else). Still, there are probably "Better" sins to equate for your purposes than having fish for lunch; wrath comes to mind, thievery, unclean lips, etc. Just a tip.

[Nikolai Melodie]

Interesting read.

For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I know it's popular in politics and the media to focus on Homosexuality as THE consumer sin of choice (dun-dun-dun), but no one mortal sin is any better or worse than the rest of them; a sin is a sin, and committing any one of them just as destructive as all those left to the side. I refuse to pass judgment on you, because to pass judgment would be to assume I took any sort of moral authority and/or supremacy over you in these matters, which not one member on this forum can claim (unless Jesus himself is secretly part of the modding staff). You seem to have a good grasp of your situation, where you stand and what you want, so I will leave it between you and God. Hope you can sort out everything with the Big Guy himself.

Although I might refrain from the Red Lobster comments, as the dietary laws of Moses were predominantly for health reasons I believe (although I may be wrong, I'm no expert. Double check with someone else). Still, there are probably "Better" sins to equate for your purposes than having fish for lunch; wrath comes to mind, thievery, unclean lips, etc. Just a tip.

I realized it was just a dietary law and thus sort of defunct (is that even the word I'm looking for ?!) ...which is why I picked it out. It's still there, and it's in the bible, so if we're taking the Bible completely literary, then isn't it possible that the verses that people often use to make homosexuality into the deepest, darkest of sins are also out of date?

That probably sounded rather rude; forgive me! x.x; I just mean that, some things in the bible were more or less moral codes from a long time ago, like keeping slaves and such. Stuff like that is in the bible still, but we understand it to be wrong or unfitting for our socitey, so we don't do it. On the other hand, homosexuals still get some rather poor judements. What I'm asking is, is that right? Even if you don't believe that we should be allowed to marry or any of that-- I'm not asking political questions. Just, giving priority to one thing and ignoring another doesn't sit right with me.

What I'm trying to say, in my ever-so-rambeling way, is that I don't feel it's right to pick and choose like that.

Umm but thanks a bunch for not judging or anything, even though I rambeled at you for so long. =) heh... I only know such much of my situation as the Lord allows me to grasp ^^;; I'm just a kid, afterall...

[Fish and Chips]

I realized it was just a dietary law and thus sort of defunct (is that even the word I'm looking for ?!) ...which is why I picked it out. It's still there, and it's in the bible, so if we're taking it completely literary, then isn't it possible that the verses that people often use to make homosexuality into the deepest, darkest of sins are also out of date?

That probably sounded rather rude; forgive me! =(

If you mean the Old Testament, the New Testament also discusses homosexuality (Romans, I think), although I don't think any actual verse makes out homosexuality as "The deepest, darkest of sins." People tend to single out all encompassing sins to rally against, and homosexuality being portrayed as a hedonistic lifestyle (whether individual gays are actually hedonistic or not), makes it an easy target. Not to mention that humans inherently enjoy promoting themselves above the ranks of their peers, and as we Christians are (ultimately) only human ourselves, many have done things they'll end up regretting (if not in this life, then the next). And even if homosexuality is "The deepest, darkest of sins," if God can forgive anything, he can certainly forgive that; the only question is if penance is wanted.

And no; it came off as curious, but not rude.

[AsianBlossom]

I just say this: love the sinner, hate the sin. We may not approve of your lifestyle one bit, but we still love you as a friend and shouldn't judge, like Fish and Chips said.

[uc pseudonym]

No, you're not banned. I can't guarantee this thread will remain unlocked, but if so it would be nothing against you. As you'll recall, we don't allow theological debate, which this thread could easily become.

In fact, I can't make a very long post without breaking those rules. So I will be brief, in the hope that this thread can edify you or others in some way instead of becoming an argument.

The bible is NOT taken literally anymore, and it doesn’t need to be.

But generally speaking, people don't try to take the Bible literally, they try to take it consistently. I, for example, believe that different books need to be read in different ways, but this is based on my general principle of literary context and doesn't mean I can pick and choose which verses to follow. If you believe homosexuality is wrong and use verses from Leviticus to prove this, yes, you would need to obey all verses in the same category. But there are people with the same belief who use verses other than those of the class you mentioned. I won't elaborate further on that unless necessary, in which case it should happen via PM.

In an effort to end on a more positive note, let me say this: the dehumanizing way that many in the church treats homosexuals is wrong. There needs to be a lot more talking in Christian love and less yelling/picketing. But all too often people rant against homosexuality because it is a problem with other people, a moral requirement that doesn't affect them at all. Preaching against greed and materialism would cause believers to be uncomfortable.

[Radical Dreamer]

I realized it was just a dietary law and thus sort of defunct (is that even the word I'm looking for ?!) ...which is why I picked it out. It's still there, and it's in the bible, so if we're taking the Bible completely literary, then isn't it possible that the verses that people often use to make homosexuality into the deepest, darkest of sins are also out of date?

That probably sounded rather rude; forgive me! x.x; I just mean that, some things in the bible were more or less moral codes from a long time ago, like keeping slaves and such. Stuff like that is in the bible still, but we understand it to be wrong or unfitting for our socitey, so we don't do it. On the other hand, homosexuals still get some rather poor judements. What I'm asking is, is that right? Even if you don't believe that we should be allowed to marry or any of that-- I'm not asking political questions. Just, giving priority to one thing and ignoring another doesn't sit right with me.

I don't think most of the verses in Leviticus really apply anymore, but both Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians (6, as I recall) mention homosexuality as a sin. What many Christians fail to note, though, is that the particular scripture in 1 Corinthians rattles off a long list of sins (lying, thievery, murder, etc. etc.), homosexuality being one of many. Why homosexuality these days is made out to be the be-all, end-all of sins is beyond me, but it is forgivable, especially since all sins are equal in God's eyes. I don't believe it's an irrevocable thing; as you said, all things are possible with God, and in His time He may change you. Until then, though, we as Christians are to love you, not hate you. Anyone who says otherwise is not following Jesus's example.

Ever since I was a child, I was taught to hate the sin and love the sinner. I have two uncles on my mom's side of the family that are gay. One is living with another man (we all actually like his partner more than we like him, but that's beside the point XD), and the other is dating a transvestite. I'm not going to say it's not hard to love them sometimes, but I will say that it would be a lot harder on everyone if my family decided to shun them or something. That does nothing but make the situation worse.

So yeah, I hope you don't feel like everyone at CAA is going to hate you now or anything, because we're not. I certainly don't, and I actually hope you stick around. I'll be praying for you!

[Dai-go]

Ya' know, honestly, I hope you stay either way.
You enjoy anime, and you're a Christian, that's a reason to keep posting and enjoying everyone's posts right?

Anyways, not flamin' and not giving my two cents because I'm broke.
SO! Just hope you stay and not leaving cuz you're on a guilt trip or anything. If that was so, I bet half of us would be gone! XD lol

Anyways, hope ya' stay.

Peace
God bless!

[Mave]

I think most of us want to fellowship and help you overcome your sins, which Christians are supposed to do in the first place anyway. I won't condemn the sexual orientation but I hope you understand when some draw the line with the act itself [i.e. having a sexual relationship with one of the same gender).

With that said, I'm glad that you previously made it out from a tough past. I'm sure, in addition to your current disposition, you can overcome even more and have added victory through His Spirit. Who knows? Stick with us and we'll see.

[Alexander]

I have to agree with what everyone has said, and I'd like to add that I myself have had to internally and externally debate with this situation myself.

(The comments made in the post below are not intended to be a theological debate, but merely my own opinion and observation. If felt otherwise, edit or delete my post as necessary.)

I think same-gender love has been in a lot of conflict lately due to all the mass media attention. And while I myself try to avoid it, I have been caught a little in the conflict.

I've met many people who supported same-gender love very strongly, including people who once were Christians. And whenever I would openly state that I didn't support it, they automatically acted like I was being insensitive and would usually say, "let me guess, 1 Corinthians"? At one point I almost sincerely wondered if Christians were being "the bad guys" for what we stood for in that regard. But I then had to realize that anyone who does disagree with someone who supports something, there usually will be automatic labels given unfortunately. It was only until very recently that I was able to calm down a lot of the fear I had when I heard of the term, "same gender marriage". And I feel a lot more comforted when I'm around someone who tones a single sin down to all other sins.

So, to Seleana, I have to say that I too will not shun you. Anymore then anyone should shun me when I tell them I've had a number of sinful problems in my life that I'm trying to control and heal. We're all here for you.

[Sheol777]

Christ accepted us while we were yet sinners...

I am impressed with the tone this thread has taken. I pretty much agree with all the advice given here.(especially from Fish and Chips...as usual)

I for one hope you do not get banned, and do not see it happening unless you start promoting homosexuality or something like that. You seem to read the bible, but are still comming to grips with understanding it, but keep it up you're doing good.

Homosexuality is the 'pet' sin that christian groups like to attack and it really turns a lot of people away from faith when you beat them down with it.

[Tenshi no Ai]

If you think about it, it's not JUST Christians that play up with the idea, since many from other beliefs/atheists look highly down upon it as well (ala hate crimes, murders towards it). Many see it as something 'unnatural' and 'abnormal' and makes it as an easy target. I can even see some Christian groups as committing hate crimes because they won't let a gay person IN the church, from stories I've heard.... harsh stuff :/

One verse I like is about how Jesus says something to someone about how they see a needle in someone else' eye yet don't see the log in their own :/ Things get up played and are shown as 'worse'. I think people need to focus on trying to be more loving towards others, rather than give some despicable looks/comments etc. and just plain look down upon people. I used to be someone who looked down upon people themselves when they did things I didn't personally approved of, but then realized why judge others so much when I do things that aren't perfect myself? Can't be a hypocrite^^

[Nikolai Melodie]

Thank you all for your imput thus far. I'm really happy we got off of one page with totally non-debateish responses.

I never wanted to debate anything, I just wanted to make the point clear that this isn't meant toward Christians alone. I believe even people who aren't Christians need (first of all, a bit more Jesus in their lives... but don't we all? ) to be a bit more accepting to gay people. They don't need to accept homosexuality, they just need to realize that we too are people. However, Christians especially, have become a source of interest as we preach to love our fellow man, yet if they turn up to be gay (as Tenshi no Ai has said) they're often turned away from churches and sometimes killed. x.x

Anyways, on a happy note, I'm really, really glad that I'm still unbanned. Probably the worst stereotype of gay people is that we're all insane sexual deviants and nympos. No, and I for one, like to make friends in a more positive atmosphere that I know is free of yaoi/hentai, and even yuri, where I can also grow in faith. Thanks for keeping this civil, and thank you to the mods for being understanding. Go CAA!

[termyt]

No document ever written can be properly understood when taken literally.

The intent of the author and the context in which it is written must be considered to fully understand any writing – whether it is the Bible, a text book, or a novel.

Furthermore, unless you are reading it in ancient Hebrew and Greek, when you are reading the Bible, you are reading a translation. Even if you are fluent in the ancient languages, the difference in culture must be taken into account.

Take slavery, for example. Many people will point out that by giving laws regarding their treatment, the Bible condones slavery. We consider slavery to be one of the gravest forms of injustice today, so the claim that God is a just God is obviously false, right? However, slavery was not only common place, it was culturally acceptable. One could sell one’s own self into slavery. The rules laid down about slavery in the Bible which label people as property seem barbaric today but they were progressive for the time. They set minimum standards for the treatment of slaves giving the slave both value and rights.

So, what’s the point? I’m glad I asked. Is Leviticus relevant today? Absolutely. Christ did not abolish the Law, He fulfilled it. It is still very much in effect.

But what was the purpose of the Law? What was its intent?

The law tells us to drain all of the blood out of an animal before cooking and eating it. That makes for one dry flavorless steak and it’s a practice we do not follow today. Are we sinning?

The purpose of the Law, in addition to the basic needs for justice, was to set apart (the definition of holy)the Jews from their neighbors. The blood of animals was use by their neighbors in order to pass the strength of the animals into the humans that consumed it. By not drinking even a drop of blood, the Jews were set apart (made holy) in that their strength came wholly from the Lord and not from nature.

It comes down to there being three basic classifications for Old Testament laws.
1. Justice – laws to protect citizens from other people such as prohibitions against killing and theft. These laws are the basis for modern law and are common to most every society.

2. Holy – laws designed to set the Israelites apart from the rest of the world. The dietary and Sabbath laws fall into this category. These are the laws we typically ignore today. The Jews were set apart (holy) from the rest of the world made evident in their laws designed to show their authority and power came from God and not the pagan gods or nature. Today, Christians are the ones set apart (holy), but not by culture so they do not live under this law (but under grace).


3. Social – laws designed to promote health and harmony for both individuals and society in general. Laws concerning sexuality, marriage, treatment of others fall into this category. These laws are designed to show the path God intended us to travel down. Following these laws promotes a healthy lifestyle. Ignoring these laws leads to, well, our culture today full of sex and drugs on demand with little care for the lives wrecked in the process.

What does that mean to a homosexual? First off, it means the same as it does to the gossip, the adulterer, the liar, and the greedy. None of those lifestyles reflects God’s desire for our lives. We don’t strive to break the habits of those lifestyles because the are “evil” or “unnatural” or “wrong.” We fight those impulses because God has shown us a better way – a way that will lead us to a healthier, happier lifestyle and He has shown us this because He loves us and wants what is best for us.

My lifestyle is not perfect. I struggle with my own sexuality, although not it’s orientation. Our culture is rich with abuses of our sexuality, it’s all too common. However, I will continue to strive for a better lifestyle – a Godly lifestyle. Not because I have to and not because I’ll go to hell if I don’t. I am saved. I have been redeemed. But I know God’s way is better and it is worth struggling to achieve.