Just want to state an opinion

[Chazz]

Most of you will probably interpret this the wrong way, but...
You can't always believe everything you hear.
people that worship (or believe in, or whatever) things they have only heard about or have read about need to start thinking and making their own decisions about what they believe in. Think logically, think metaphorically, whatever, as long as you're thinking, you're being smart. Just because something is believed in by a bunch or people isn't necessarily true. Yes. We've all heard the preacher: "Christianity is the way" and even the CAA, "all other forms are religion are sinful and wrong." But who are you to tell people what they can and can't believe in? shutting people off from other religions only serves to send them deeper into a hole of false security that they may never escape from. I'm sick and tired of hardcore christian people who won't question their own faith. There's nothing wrong with doubt. It's part of human nature. And we are human, after all. If you come across something in the bible you disagree with, do you do anything about it? do you stand up and say "that isn't right", or do you sit back and just accept it? There are a lot of holes and mysteries of the christian religion that no one has really come out and talked about. They know they're there, they just won't say anything because they're too confident that their religion is "best." They won't admit that there are some things that are logically proven, like evolution, for example. People tell me that if I believe in evolution, I'm not a christian. So i'm not a christion for using this "god-given" brain to think for myself? To think thoughts other that the ones written in a book? For believing in things some people say are wrong? There's seriously something messed up about this. And You all probably realize it.
...To sum it up, There is nothing wrong with being a christian. I myself am a christian. but if being a christian is causing you to overlook proven facts and other things that you don't believe, maybe you should rethink christianity as a whole. Believe what you want to believe. Don't let other people tell you what's true and isn't. Think for yourself.

That's pretty much something i've wanted to get off my chest for a long time. I'm postive i'm going to be kicked because I'm not saying "christianity is the right religion" or something like that, but for the people that do get a chance to read this, I hope you understand it, and hopefully get a chance to question your faith some. It'll make you a stronger person because of it.
good luck.

[Ashley]

I agree you need to know what you believe and why on your own terms, and not just blindly agree because that's what you've been told to do. Unless you come to Christ on your own free will, of your own realization of your sins and your need for forgiveness and truly repent, all the lip service and head knowledge about Christ in the world won't save you. Nor will all the good deeds or just being a "nice person".

I have been told God does not hate skepticism, but rather encourages it. Look at "doubting" Thomas. Christ didn't rebuke him (at least that was my intepretation of the passage) but He let him prove for himself that the ressurection was real. I think God wants us to use that "God-given brain of ours" and find out what we truly believe. We all have a choice, to be right or to be wrong.

But the Bible does clearly state there is a wrong choice. That's where we "get off sayng other religions are wrong". Because the Bible clearly teaches "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except through Me"--that's pretty clear that there is no other way to salvation save Christ Jesus. Also look at John 3:16--that doesn't say God sent his only begotten son as A WAY to heaven, but if you don't like that you can become a bhuddist or something. Says Christ is the way, that's it. As painful as that is to think about, that's the truth. The hope is that you're not doomed to hell--you do have a chance to attain salvation. Bible also says God is willing none should perish, and that all will have a chance to hear His name. He's a merciful God of love and grace willing to forgive us of all things if we but ask.

As I said, I don't think questioning what you believe is wrong. Paul commends us to "test the spirits" and know our faith. But I do think it's wrong to deliberately antagonize Christianity. To have a biblical truth in front of you that you try to explain away by using science or philosophy only further decieves you. So it's fine to question your faith or why you believe what you do, if you are open minded enough to accept the fact you may be wrong, and are willing to heed God's will. If you're willing to find your biblical roots for your theology and really come to God seeking answers for a geniune faith instead of a reason to ignore Him, then I'm sure He will reward you.

[Chazz]

Somewhat expected... most of it I've heard before, but you raise some interesting points. It's a lot to think about. Thanks for the info.

[The Mad Hatter]

edit: this refers to chazz's post

I couldn't agree more

back when I was an atheist, there was nothing I hated more than christians telling me I was wrong. I figured that if they really wanted me to love my neighbour, they should quit making me hate them...

you said exactly what I've been wanting to say

[Lynx]

They won't admit that there are some things that are logically proven, like evolution, for example. People tell me that if I believe in evolution, I'm not a christian.

my senior thesis paper was on this topic. Both creation and evolution were equally researched, since it was the nature of the assignment. many christians dont realize that one type of evolution, microevolution, is a fact. scientists have witnessed microevolution take place. microevolution is minor changes within a species. an example of this is two different species of dogs breeding to produce a different type of dog than both of the parents. Macroevolution, on the other hand, is just theory. this aspect of evolution has NOT been logically proven. macroevolution is large, complex changes over time, such as all life comming from a single-celled organism.

i'm sure you've been fed the same "evidence" for evolution as i have in your biology class. the problem is, the textbooks are wrong because many of the evidences and theories that go along with evolution have been disproven. for example, ever hear of miller and urey? they were the two guys who put gases in a tube, put a spark through it, and got amino acids later. experiment is now discredited by most secular scientists, because oxygen wasn't used in the tube and scientists recently discovered it should have been (this was because of photodisassociation- the water vapor in the air would have broken down into hydrogen and oxygen, and most of the hydrogen would have escaped out of the atmosphere). oxygen would have killed any amino acids that were present, so this is why the majority of the secular scientific community doesn't use this experment as evidence anymore.

what about the pepper moths? the ones that changed colors to blend in with the bark better when air polution was on the rise? well it turns out pepper moths dont naturally land on tree trunks, the pictures taken of them (which probably are in your textbook) were staged. the moths instead stay in the canopy. because of this many secular scientists have thrown this out too.

it takes faith to believe in God, and it takes faith to believe in macroevolution. so i guess ultimatley it's up to what you'd rather put your faith in.

[Chazz]

yeah. I've read a bunch of stuff on evolution in my science books... you're right... a bunch of it sounds like bs. I'm a logical person by nature. I like things to make sense. I used to figure I was 100% right, but I'm slowly realizing that's there's a lot more to the world than i think.

[Lynx]

i didn't get a chance to properly welcome you, so hello and welcome to CAA,

[Technomancer]

Hello! Of course we should be prepared to question ourselves and our interpretatons, not only the basis of scripture, but also with respect to history, archaeology and scientific discoveries. You will (I hope) find that there are a diversity of opinions here on just about every subject relating to theology, including evolution. While I don't want to get involved in that argument (again ), you should be aware that most mainstream denominations (Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, etc) are perfectly comfortable with the concept and accept it in a variety of ways relating to their individual theologies. By the same token, quite a number of theologians have written expressing their positive opinion of the science as well e.g. Barbour, Pennock, de Chardin, etc. As well, many of the people who have worked in relevant scientific fields were themselves Christians (off the top of my head: Wallace, Walcott, Dobzhansky, Miller, ec). For that matter, most Christians of my own acquitance also accept the science behind modern theories of evolution or geology (and some of them are directly involved in those sciences as well).

I think that if you look, you will find a considerable range of discussion on this matter as well as on other contentious issues as well. There is quite a lot of good scholarship, and much of it is accessible to a popular audience. I think you will find that opinions are more diverse than your post seems to make out.

[Iona]

Hi! Never met you before, but welcome to CAA.

About your remarks, I'd say you aren't a hardcore Christian unless you question your faith. I've struggled with the issue that well, if I believe strongly in something, isn't there someone else who believes just as strongly in their religion? I actually also got bashed on in school by my "Christian" friends when a non-Christian asked me about Christianity and I explained the core beliefs to him. They said they didn't agree with me on a lot of points. However, if the belief argument is true, then the suicide bombers paid the ultimate price for their religion and will be in heaven. One of the "Christians" agreed with that...you don't get anywhere in school by never questioning your teachers, you can't learn a new skill with questioning your instructor, we all nearly killed our parents with question when we were four, it's natural to question our faith and thus make our belief stronger. Why else do we have free will? And yes, it is free will, even though God knows what our decision will ultimately be. Anyway, that's what I've learned for the past three years.

I hope you enjoy your stay here, be sure to post lots! You sound intelligent and don't always assume, k? Everyone's pretty fair-minded around here, or that's what I've picked up anyhow.

[Htom Sirveaux]

If you come across something in the bible you disagree with, do you do anything about it? do you stand up and say "that isn't right", or do you sit back and just accept it.

Get a bible commentary book. Those things are great for helping you figure out the meanings of passages that you might not otherwise understand.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Try asking yourself this: "Whose my Jesus? is he the Jesus that the bible talks of? Or a little bit of the bible and a lot our own vain imagination? or most of the bible and a little imagonation because i dont like something."

It's not our job to save people because only God is able to that. It's our job to lead people to him.

I come across a lot of things that doan't amke sense or seem right, but I dont reject them, and i know that it is right because God said it Himslef. Then I do everyting to figure it out. Like when God comanded Joshua to go through and kill every last man woman and child, that just seemed wrong. But what does God see in those people who died? Pagans. Today though, we or Shall I say God usess his Word through us to eliminate Pagans.

John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Reject (part) of the word, you reject (part) of God. With God, it's all or nothing, and he's still revealing more and more to me day by day, and I don't reject it.

Hmm i hope this helps... somehow... of course I could be wrong.... heres a little of what my uncle said

Hitch says:

its a fairly common complaint

Hitch says:

and we in the church bear some of teh blame

Reforming6 says:

sounds like a lotta bs to me for some reason... but i dont fully get itHitch says:

however the basic principal ,,,,

Hitch says:

christianity is exclusionary

Hitch says:

applies whether one likes it or not

Reforming6 says:

wahtr does all that mean?Hitch says:

Some one answered and said

Hitch says:

Jesus is THE WAY and the TRUTH and THE LIFE

Reforming6 says:

yeahHitch says:

that is exclusionary

Hitch says:

there is no other

Reforming6 says:

okHitch says:

compromising on this is an extreme failure and has no place in our lives or theology

Reforming6 says:

hmm so he's wrong then, right?Hitch says:

absoluterly

Reforming6 says:

your word s are too bigHitch says:

you're up to it

Reforming6 says:

hmmHitch says:

we are millitantly christian

Reforming6 says:

wahts that?Hitch says:

in matters of charity we make no distinctions

Hitch says:

but in matters of theology we can and must recognize the standards which were written for our benefit

Hitch says:

If someone needs water we give water

Hitch says:

while we make no consessions wrt the lordship of Jesus Christ

Reforming6 says:

whats that mean?Hitch says:

it means

Hitch says:

there are things we must never compromise on

Reforming6 says:

yeahHitch says:

Jesus is Lord ,,, this implies that Jesus is the ONLY lord

Hitch says:

this is true

Reforming6 says:

yupHitch says:

we must never allow the notion that other ways are valid

Reforming6 says:

mmhmmHitch says:

yet

Hitch says:

we will still act with compassion to all when necessary

[Saint Kevin]

There are a lot of holes and mysteries of the christian religion that no one has really come out and talked about.

Mysteries? Holes?

I don't know exactly what you are referring to here specifically. Do you mean, the mysteries that will make sense on the other side of eternity, but for now we can only grasp at because of the greatness of God, and our own limited understanding? Or perhaps something else...?

They know they're there, they just won't say anything because they're too confident that their religion is "best." They won't admit that there are some things that are logically proven, like evolution, for example

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of scientists that believe in evolution may know that the fossil record does not bear it out, but still choose to believe is because they feel that there is no room in science for God, or because they don't want God to make any sort of claim on their lives. Perhaps they are too confident that their theory is best.

I am one of those who does not believe in the idea of macroevolution. I am working towards a major in chemistry as we speak, and I have enough scientific knowledge to say with confidence that the theory of evolution to explain away God (or the creation account in Genesis) is only that - a theory.

If you would like to discuss matters of science or theology, please take it to PM with me, or look me up on AIM. I don't really want to debate specifics in this thread, but I'd love to discuss it with you on either AIM or PM. You may have some very good questions, or some things I haven't considered, and I might just have some of the same for you.

[Technomancer]

You will find a lot of good scientific information about evolution on:
http://www.talkorigins.org Serious examination of the science will reveal the overwhelming solidity of the current theories.

[Mave]

All Christians are called to investigate their faith for themselves and I'm glad to have found such brothers and sisters in CAA who do so. I appreciate your honesty and I think more well-equipped CAA members have provided good advice. Hang around, hope you find what you're looking for here. ^___^ Welcome to CAA.

[Fsiphskilm]

ewwww... [b]evo

[inkhana]

Just as a warning - let's keep this on topic and not let it degrade into a discussion of evolution. That'll just get the thread closed.

[Saint Kevin]

Yeah, sorry for starting it down that path. Just may take something to PM tho.

[Lynx]

Just as a warning - let's keep this on topic and not let it degrade into a discussion of evolution. That'll just get the thread closed.

sorry inkhana

[Haibane Shadsie]

A faith that is not questioned, at least every once in a while, is not worth having. I ask God questions all the time. I always find some answer.

As for evolution... myeh. I believe God created everything - but the specific "how" of his creating everything is fine for me to be left a mystery. I've heard many theories - from Young Earth Creation, to the whole "days" being "indefinite periods of time" idea, to the idea that our current world is built upon a much older one... so many ideas. I don't think we'll know the specifics until we get to Heaven.

[Chazz]

I'm not trying to trash anyone, but this is where i hit a wall.
someone earlier said that he/she believes because God said it himself.
How can you be sure that God said it? How do you know the bible has any truth at all? How do you know that the bible isn't just stories that were created as metaphors so they can be understood by us? How do you know that the bible wasn't just written by a bunch of creative people with no religion? Do you know the Mormon religion? With the supposed new book of the bible? Why aren't we supposed to believe that? It doesn't make sense. What about the Toran? How do we know it's not true? And why were parts of the bible cut out? Did they not "fit in" with the kind of ideals the printers/preachers/whoever wanted them to? There are so many unanswered questions. And besides the fact that there are so many believers out there, nothing seems to be pointing to any proof. I know there's really not any (or none that I know of) but how can I be expected to believe in something that I don't think exists? I haven't gotten a straight answer out of anyone at my church... Have I missed something? Is there some crucial piece of evidence I've overlooked? I know this is proably something we've all been through , but please don't give me the thing about the wind. I've heard it about 20 times, and it's not sounding any better. And if you don't have an answer, say so. All I'm interested in is what YOU think, as a person. I just want your thoughts.

Just another shot in the dark. Keep your brains working.

[Fsiphskilm]

Lynx, Saint Kevin...

[true_noir_chloe]

[size=100][font=Times New Roman] “For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.â€

[Fsiphskilm]

(Volt's Reply in

[Fsiphskilm]

[align=cente

[true_noir_chloe]

Volt, I'm impressed with your answers. ^___^ I guess I didn't need to come and answer anything. Chazz, I hope you get a chance to know Volt, he's a young man who has grown so much in the last eight or so months that I've read his posts here on CAA. He has always been one to question things and he has come to the Lord with a broken and contrite attitude. "... A broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise." Ps. 51:17b (NASB) It is not only in his spirit that he has changed, but he's backed it up with intelligent study.

Please think over whether you ask questions to get answers, or ask questions to look like you know something. A wise man asks to find an answer, a fool asks to look like he's wise. Keep your brain working, right? ~_^

I've bumped this thread up enough. PM me if you really want to talk. I'd suggest you talk with Volt, though.

[Shinja]

i always wonder how come my butt doesnt light up?

[kaji]

How can you be sure that God said it? How do you know the bible has any truth at all? How do you know that the bible isn't just stories that were created as metaphors so they can be understood by us? How do you know that the bible wasn't just written by a bunch of creative people with no religion?

Good question. One that I’m sure many Christians and non Christians alike have asked. The answer is faith.

How do you know we have actually been into outer space? Or on the moon? How do you know that we really sent a probe to Mars or Saturn?
How do you know every single event wasn’t staged? Pictures ‘edited’ on some guy’s computer? Its all an elaborate cover up for the government to spend billions of tax dollars on what ever they want, with no repercussions.
The answer is: you don’t know. You simply believe that we have, you don’t have a reason not to. Some people wont believe some thing if they can’t touch it them selves. Others, simply have faith.

I used to figure I was 100% right, but I'm slowly realizing that's there's a lot more to the world than i think.

You will experiance this several times through out you life.

-kaji