CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:18 am**

Hey everyone I have a question that I was curious about and wanted some feedback on. Does everyone think that Disney=Anime?

I do think that Disney does count as an anime but I wondered what everyone else thinks. I ask because I'm cosplaying as Tiana for an Anime Convention and I want to make sure I'm on point. :hug:

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:46 am**

Well technically yes, since anime is just short for "Animation." And the fact that Disney even inspired Osamu Tezuka (arguably the grandfather of anime).

but normally when people say "Anime" people seem to just relate it to Japanese Animation, I think it's a matter of opinion. XD

I don't consider Disney "anime" It's a little different, and the stories that are created seem to follow different patterns. But I digress.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:37 am**

I do not consider Disney anime, and most fans feel the exact same way. It technically may be correct, but you will get a lot of wierd looks if you do Disney to a convention.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:45 am**

When I think of anime, I think of Japanese Animation, not American. You may be a little odd, but I don't think people will kill you if you go as a disney character, especially if it's been in Kingdom Hearts.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:06 am**

I'm on the same train of thought as Kit-chan. Technically it is, but to me I view Japanese Animation as "anime" and because of that I have never viewed Disney as anime. I think of the Disney movies I watched as a younger child in comparison to the anime I watched as a child, say Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh. They're comprised of two totally different styles, story types, etc.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:36 am**

Anime is Japanese Animation, and Disney is not... so no ^__^ Disney did however, air Kiki's Delivery Service a long long long time ago <3

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:36 am**

In Japan, "anime" means "animation". In the US, "anime" means "Japanese animation".

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:02 pm**

Why would it be a problem to wear a Disney cosplay? There was an entire princess group a couple years ago. Just because it's not Japanese, doesn't mean it can't be worn at an anime convention.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:15 pm**

Ante Bellum (post: 1454854) wrote:Why would it be a problem to wear a Disney cosplay? There was an entire princess group a couple years ago. Just because it's not Japanese, doesn't mean it can't be worn at an anime convention.

Probably depends on the con and the sort of people attending it.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:16 pm**

ChristianKitsune (post: 1454826) wrote:Well technically yes, since anime is just short for "Animation." And the fact that Disney even inspired Osamu Tezuka (arguably the grandfather of anime).

I recall hearing that Walt Disney more or less ripped off Tezuka's Jungle Emperor and hence renamed the Lion King; plus or minus some trivial details. The interwebs further tell that Tezuka was rather angered by the blatant misappropriating of his work, but no reparation or corrective measure was ever taken...

Disney may continue trying to be anime in various ways. I expect them to keep trying. I am ever skeptical and doubt anything approaching the essence of Japenese anime will ever truly come of it. But here-at I speculate. Only certain thing is that Disney has its own flavor--quite apart from what you and I would normally wish to concede to anime...

Even so, I occasionally watch episodes of Naruto Shippuden on Disney XD (the XD is part of the channel name).

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:20 pm**

Well, when they made The Lion King, Walt Disney was long dead, so I wouldn't blame Disney himself. :p

But yeah they totally ripped off Kimba the White Lion.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:11 pm**

ShiroiHikari (post: 1454857) wrote:Probably depends on the con and the sort of people attending it.

Are some cons really like that? I mean, not wanting anything other than anime costumes?

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:14 pm**

Honestly, this is one of the reasons that I see no reason to distinguish Japanese animation into it's own special little category. Great animation comes from all over the world. I don't see anyone calling French animation "dessin animÃ©". (Except people who speak french, of course. )

As to your question, I don't see the problem. I have seen many Disney characters at anime conventions, so if the convention is large, you may find yourself in good company.

In reference to Kimba, here is wikipedia's synopsis of Kinba's plot:

In Africa during the mid-20th century, as mankind encroaches, the white lion, Panja gives the jungle's wild animals a safe haven. However, he angers nearby villagers by stealing their cattle, their food, to feed the jungle carnivores. (In the English dub Panja merely frees the cattle.)
A professional hunter, Viper Snakely, (known as Ham Egg in the original Japanese) is called in to stop these raids. He avoids directly attacking Panja. Instead, he records the sounds of Panja and uses them to trap his mate, Eliza, who then becomes bait in a trap for Panja. Panja is killed for his hide, and the pregnant Eliza is put on a ship, destined for a zoo.
Kimba (Leo in the Japanese-language version) is born on the boat. Eliza teaches him his father's ideals. As a huge storm nears, she urges her cub out through the bars of her cage. The storm wrecks the boat, and he flounders in the ocean. The fish help him learn to swim. As he begins to despair, the stars in the sky form the face of his mother, who encourages him. Guided by butterflies, he makes it to land.
Leo/Kimba lands far from his ancestral home and is found and cared for by some people. He learns the advantages of human culture, and decides that when he returns to his wild home he will bring culture to the jungle and stand for peace like his father.
The show follows Leo/Kimba's life after he returns to the wild, still a young cub, and how he learns and grows in the next year. Leo/Kimba soon learns that only communication and mutual understanding between animals and humans will bring true peace.

I really don't see the similarities here. Granted, the characters are fairly similar, but really most of it seems like it could be coincidence, particularly when you take into account that both are family stories about African animals. You can't exactly have your heroes eating their friends, can you?

Really, the worst offenders are things that look very strongly like homages to Kimba, though why Disney would deny it's influence on the plot advancements and composition of shots, I will never know. Things like the jutting rock and the stampede, for instance.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:37 pm**

WOW I'm so happy so many people responded. Yeah I think Japanese animation has it's own flavor and such but since Disney inspired a lot of anime, a video game series , and different mangas I would say it would qualify for anime. Also Disney is very popular within Japanese culture and the stories often are seen or sometimes talk about in some animes.

Plus since Kingdom Hearts is kind of an anime game and Disney characters are all up in it you could say that both art styles mesh relatively well.

Heheh now I'm not really worried about wearing a Disney cosplay to an Anime convention. I have seen it done before many a time. I mean people cosplay Joker and Harley Quinn and Superhero characters so any kind of cosplay is pretty accepted. All the opinions on this are really cool. But would you say that Anime only has to be Japanese or inspired from Japanese style. The Boondocks is an anime as is Afro Samurai but in it you can clearly see the anime style animation.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:00 pm**

I've never heard of anyone thinking that Disney animation is anime, even clueless people who don't know Astro Boy from Pinocchio.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:05 pm**

Given that The Lion King was Hamlet IN AFRICA! I'd have a hard time seeing someone calling it a ripoff of Kimba.

As far as the whole topic of this thread, I don't see the point in expanding anime to mean all animation, at least over here. If we need a name for any animated work, can't we just use the word animation?

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:07 pm**

I've seen disney costumes at Anime Expo in LA, and it seemed to not be an issue.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:37 pm**

Mr. Hat'n'Clogs (post: 1454906) wrote:As far as the whole topic of this thread, I don't see the point in expanding anime to mean all animation, at least over here. If we need a name for any animated work, can't we just use the word animation?

This.

For the word anime to have any meaningful currency, it needs to have things it designates and things it excludes. I realize that language changes to reflect usage and blah blah blah, but we aren't doing ourselves any favors by allowing anime to mean animation in general rather than a specifically defined subset of animation. Up to this point, I think anime has meant animation planned/produced (regardless of outsourcing assignments) by animation studios located in Japan.

The fact that Disney cartoons are not anime is not an indictment against them any more than Dr. Pepper not being wine is an indictment against Dr. Pepper. Anime is what it is, and Disney cartoon are what they are. Some people are fans of one or the other, and some are fans of both.

Also, mech is right. No worries about cosplay. At anime cons people usually cosplay as whatever they want: anything from X-Men to Star Trek usually finds its way in.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:56 pm**

TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1454914) wrote:For the word anime to have any meaningful currency, it needs to have things it designates and things it excludes. I realize that language changes to reflect usage and blah blah blah, but we aren't doing ourselves any favors by allowing anime to mean animation in general rather than a specifically defined subset of animation. Up to this point, I think anime has meant animation planned/produced (regardless of outsourcing assignments) by animation studios located in Japan.

The fact that Disney cartoons are not anime is not an indictment against them any more than Dr. Pepper not being wine is an indictment against Dr. Pepper. Anime is what it is, and Disney cartoon are what they are. Some people are fans of one or the other, and some are fans of both.

Agree completely.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:07 pm**

Warrior 4 Jesus (post: 1454904) wrote:I've never heard of anyone thinking that Disney animation is anime, even clueless people who don't know Astro Boy from Pinocchio.

Actually it's pretty common. I'm sure in Japanese culture they would call our Disney movies anime since "In Japanese, the term "anime" is derived from the English word "animation" so even in Japan, anime simply means animation."

But I'd say you are right on the grounds that we are in America and I think it's a difference as we associate the "Anime" style with only the Japanese.

Though I think of it as a broader art form that isn't only limited to its origins in Japan:)

I asked this question because of the very fact that a lot of people were referring to Disney movies as anime. I didn't know what it all was about at first but after checking into it a little then I began to feel that it could be labeled anime. Plus when I went to AWA I saw Non/Disney Crossover MVs in the video room and people started telling me that Disney counted as anime too since it was animation.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:33 pm**

It's just how we non-Japanese people use the word.

It's kind of like how in Mexico, "sombrero" is the word for any kind of hat. Baseball caps, top hats, fedoras, whatever. However, to non-Mexicans, "sombrero" is used to mean specifically the stereotypical hat you see Mexicans wear at places like South of the Border or whatever. It's just how we use it.

So of course Disney isn't anime, because that's not how we use the word outside Japan. If we were in Japan? Then yeah it'd be "anime" because that's their word for any type of cartoon. In America we make more of a distinction, and Disney doesn't meet the qualifications for anime. I mean I wouldn't start calling Marvel Comics "manga" because even though "manga" is the Japanese word for any comic, it's not how we use the word here.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:40 pm**

Agreeing with Nate on this one

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:10 pm**

What Nate said.

There are always going to be people who say that they believe that anime=animation outside of Japan, but they're in the minority. A very small minority.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:44 pm**

Mic Mic, I'm not American, I'm an Aussie and I've never heard Disney stuff mistaken for anime. Also, anime is a French word if we wish to get technical. But Nate said it well. I have nothing more to add.

PostPosted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:33 am**

Mic Mic (post: 1454945) wrote:But I'd say you are right on the grounds that we are in America and I think it's a difference as we associate the "Anime" style with only the Japanese.

Though I think of it as a broader art form that isn't only limited to its origins in Japan:)

A couple of things:

(1) I don't think there is such a thing as "the 'anime' style." Sure, there is a stereotype. Big eyes, small noses, weird-colored hair, etc. However, for any quality that you name which you feel is intrinsic to anime, I can point to half a dozen examples of Japanese cartoons which do not posses that quality. Go look at Fist of the North Star, Magic Knight Rayearth and Tatami Galaxy. Are you willing to claim that one of these examples of animation produced in Japan is not anime? My point is this: the only useful application of the term anime is as a term for geographic origin. If we say it's broader than that, we risk making the word "anime" meaningless, and if we say it's narrower than that and is about some set of aesthetic qualities, then we exclude animation that is clearly anime.

(2) Your above comments seem to insinuate that the definition of anime is "too limiting." When it comes to definitions of words, limitation is good. It helps us to more clearly understand one another when communicating verbally. To persist in the application of a term in a different sense than the term warrants is just plain old misuse of the term. Say I want the word "black" to refer to objects of a certain color, including this. "Your definition of black as only certain kinds of things is too restrictive," I claim. I would still be misusing the term black and would be wrong in calling the object in question black.

PostPosted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:27 am**

TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1455110) wrote:Say I want the word "black" to refer to objects of a certain color, including this. "Your definition of black as only certain kinds of things is too restrictive," I claim. I would still be misusing the term black and would be wrong in calling the object in question black.

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion except my disappointment that this wasn't a picture of a kettle.

But anyway, Nate and the Doc have this one.

PostPosted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:09 am**

But is Gundam ZZ anime?

PostPosted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:29 am**

...because this seems out of hand, I'm just going to say.

Disney refers to their stuff as "Cartoons" and "animation."

Generally when one thinks of anime, its Japanese. When I see something done by other countries, I think; Cartoon. Not Anime. ^_^ But I saw people dressed as Disney people at a Con and people wanted their photos. So, I seriously doubt (unless you run into a crazed Otaku, which you might) that you will have trouble.

Mods, be aware, that debating is going on here. And I don't think that this should happen, since one person asked a simple question and everyone decided to make a huge flippin' deal out of it. ^_^ Be cautious Mods~!

PostPosted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:51 am**

Things seem friendly enough to me. I was not trying to mean here. I was simply offering both an answer to the question as well as a bit of discussion about certain implications and ramifications that other viewpoints may entail. If I came across as harsh, I do apologize, Mic Mic.

PostPosted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:42 pm**

[quote="Nami (post: 1455128)"]...because this seems out of hand, I'm just going to say.

Disney refers to their stuff as "Cartoons" and "animation."

Generally when one thinks of anime, its Japanese. When I see something done by other countries, I think]Y'know, forums are kind of useless for questions if we suddenly can't disagree on the question and discuss it. Imagine if every thread went like this.

"I think x."
"So do I."
"Me too."

And suddenly disagreeing and debating about why x was actually total crap is disallowed because an argument can ensue? The rules are about debating over stuff like politics, not whether the word anime should be used to encompass all animation there is. We kind of lose the point of having a forum if we can't disagree on anything, because what makes discussion much more interesting is when people disagree and argue their points.

CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Disney=Anime?

Disney=Anime?

ITs actually pretty common