CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

The vid starts out with talking about the sterotypes of the katana then gives the actual facts. The katana isn't the greatest sword in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLWzH_1eZsc

It all depends on what you need and what factors you are considering. Also,

*summons a hoard of fanboys*

Mr. Rogers (post: 1401947) wrote:It all depends on what you need and what factors you are considering. Also,

*summons a hoard of fanboys*

*defeats hoards of fanboys with claymore wielding Scotsmen*

Well the main problem with katana fanboys is that they believe the depiction of katanas in movies and animu(with katanas cutting through tanks and such). I don't really see a samurai armed with a katana being able to defeat a Knight wearing gothic plate armor.

I don't think anyone really believes a sword of any kind has that kind of power. If they do, then I can't help them. xD

In a Japanese context, they would not have had to worry about plate armor because it wasn't used in Japanese history. So, that is a need the the katana does not need to have to deal with. You have to remember, too, that one does not need to be able to cut through armor to deal with an armed opponent; a weak spot in the armor will do just fine (such as a joint). You have to consider, also, that samurai also carried spears and bows and arrows.

[quote="Mr. Rogers (post: 1401955)"]I don't think anyone really believes a sword of any kind has that kind of power. If they do, then I can't help them. xD

In a Japanese context, they would not have had to worry about plate armor because it wasn't used in Japanese history. So, that is a need the the katana does not need to have to deal with. You have to remember, too, that one does not need to be able to cut through armor to deal with an armed opponent]

You also have to consider that a katana wasn't well suited to stab through joints. Weapons like the rapier were better suited for that. Also many knights would wear chain mail under their plate armor hence making a kill very difficult unless you stabbed through the visor. You might use blunt weapons to kill him simply by trauma or you might use a crossbow/gun to wound/kill.

Indeed, Samurais carried the naginata and the yumi bow. However, how would these weapons fare against the European equilavalents such as the halberd and crossbow?

This could get bloody...
The thing I've found with weapons is that it's not just steel to steel that matters. Often times the battlefeild, weather, amount of expendable soldiers, barometrics,(ok, mebbe not air pressure) dramatically change outcomes of conflict.
With the katana, when ever I hear about why it's great, it's because of a trick used in the forging of the steel. (which is conveiniently lost...) Not that the sword design is the ultimate. Although the No Dachi is pretty neat. But I'm a Claymore fan, so anything almost as tall as me catches my fancy.

OMG UR FAYSE ISN'T THE BEST SWORD IN THE WORLD

Katanas are incredibly sharp. I once witnessed a man demonstrate its ability when he cleanly cut a business card into two. Not in half lengthwise nor by height. But through it's thin side.

But really, bro. Thanks for... sharing, I suppose? I guess you felt a need to prove us otakus wrong and shoot down our fanboyisms or something?

They do live demonstrations of real Katana at the convention I work for every year. They can cut through quite a bit. The challenge you run in to is that cutting part. Is the armor designed to withstand cutting, piercing, or both? I have as a matter of fact witnessed a Katana go through metal, so I think in laboratory settings the Katana could potentially take on plate armor.

Keep in mind, every country and period's weapons and armor are designed to protect against specific strategies. Japanese warfare was intended to take on Japanese opponents. The same can be said for european warfare... Except where it was intended to take out Saracens. :p

The katana isn't the greatest sword in the world.

Of course not. The light-saber is the greatest sword in the world.

I've seen live demonstrations of a katana's sharpness too, and it's a sight to behold. It wouldn't take much for someone to cut the living heck out of someone else with one of those things.

" wrote:Keep in mind, every country and period's weapons and armor are designed to protect against specific strategies. Japanese warfare was intended to take on Japanese opponents. The same can be said for european warfare... Except where it was intended to take out Saracens. :p

This.

Something that people should keep in mind when viewing demonstrations of ancient weapons:

Our modern forging techniques are leaps and bounds beyond the original techniques used. So most of the time, the demonstrations are hardly indicative of what the weapons were actually capable of.

The best weapon is getting shot in the face. #notthe16thcenturyanymore

The Zweihander is also a pretty darn cool sword. It seems pretty unwieldy, but I sure wouldn't wanna get hit by it. It's even more crazy than the Scottish Claymore, maybe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweih%C3%A4nder

Cognitive Gear (post: 1402035) wrote:Something that people should keep in mind when viewing demonstrations of ancient weapons:

Our modern forging techniques are leaps and bounds beyond the original techniques used. So most of the time, the demonstrations are hardly indicative of what the weapons were actually capable of.

When I say they were using Authentic I am using the fullest meaning of the word. He joked several times that the Katana was worth more than his life. It was the Sensei's prized posession and he and his kids had an understanding that it was a family heirloom to be passed onto him only at death - maybe at their hands. lol

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1402050) wrote:When I say they were using Authentic I am using the fullest meaning of the word. He joked several times that the Katana was worth more than his life. It was the Sensei's prized posession and he and his kids had an understanding that it was a family heirloom to be passed onto him only at death - maybe at their hands. lol

There are still a small number of swordsmiths in Japan who make them just like they did in the old days. Those swords are crazy expensive and you have to have certain credentials in order to get one, I think.

Yamamaya wrote:You also have to consider that a katana wasn't well suited to stab through joints. Weapons like the rapier were better suited for that. Also many knights would wear chain mail under their plate armor hence making a kill very difficult unless you stabbed through the visor. You might use blunt weapons to kill him simply by trauma or you might use a crossbow/gun to wound/kill.

Indeed, Samurais carried the naginata and the yumi bow. However, how would these weapons fare against the European equilavalents such as the halberd and crossbow?

All of this debate was put to a test on Deathliest Warrior.

Those swords are crazy expensive and you have to have certain credentials in order to get one, I think.

I maybe wrong on this, but I always heard that the only way to get one made by the swordsmiths in Japan was, you had to have member of your family tree to have been a Samurai.





[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

Please don't bring Deadliest Warrior into this. DW is notorious for historical inaccuracies.

But they did get the chain mail right in the Viking vs Samurai episode. Chainmail was riveted not butted like that crap they often use in DW episodes.(However that episode was still crap for a number of other reasons. No Viking worth his salt would strap his shield to his freaking arm.)

Keep in mind that Japan had limited iron ore supplies so they had to make due with what they had, hence the reason why they never used plate armor.

I just get irritated when people automatically assume the exotic east weapondry>>>European weapondry. Keep in mind that European weapondry was just as exotic to the Easterners as their weapons are to us!

This guy isn't thinking everything through. Just read some of the video comments

you are jealous of the pure awesomeness of the katana. since its not a lightsaber you are saying it sucks. the katana you had was most likely a cheap replica. they are supposed the be fast and light. yes japanese swords did changer over time. they started with the tachi, then the katana developed out of that.

and

I have trained a bit with a katana. Swords are as sharp as you sharpen them to be. Yes, much of Japanese armour was not metal. Yes, some katanas are thinner than others. They vary a remarkable amount, actually. I have handled katanas going back to the 12th century, and was amazed how varied they were in weighting. All weapons are made deadly by the users.

Oh man, this thread reminds me of another thread: http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=55922

Addressing the real issue behind this thread (even though everyone's answers were brilliant about the historical use of the katana, btw), CAA is not a place to complain about a certain demographic in society. Please get a blog for that.

Back on the topic of katanas, I have a katana like sword, but it's not sharp. XD If used properly, it can be deadly against another sword wielder. But pitting a sword against anyone with chain mail or a tank or whatever is foolish. The Japanese know this and most others do as well.

goldenspines (post: 1402066) wrote:Oh man, this thread reminds me of another thread: https://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=55922

Addressing the real issue behind this thread (even though everyone's answers were brilliant about the historical use of the katana, btw), CAA is not a place to complain about a certain demographic in society. Please get a blog for that.

Back on the topic of katanas, I have a katana like sword, but it's not sharp. XD If used properly, it can be deadly against another sword wielder. But pitting a sword against anyone with chain mail or a tank or whatever is foolish. The Japanese know this and most others do as well.

A katana was a good sword that much is certain. However it was made to fight against other similar warriors It's form was the same for hundreds of years while the European sword form was constantly changing.
http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm(this essay addresses the issue quite well).

Also Samurai armor was made of the same metal as the katana so obviously the katana couldn't pierce Samurai armor.(unlike in some movies). The katana is more of a slashing weapon than a bashing weapon.

(If you want to see a really sharp sword check out the swords made by Muslim warriors in Damascus. Their style of sword making was eventually adopted by the Europeans after the Crusades).

Stabbing through a car door isn't that impressive of a feat. You can do that with most blades.

The katana is certainly cool but it has its limits.(also swords were the last resort in every culture including Japanese. They prefered long reaching weapons such as the naginata or spear). Like others have mentioned the Samurai certainly wasn't stupid but neither was the Viking or knight.

http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=55922 (just remove the s if it's not a "Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure" page)

Yamamaya (post: 1402067) wrote::P
A katana was a good sword that much is certain. However it was made to fight against other similar warriors It's form was the same for hundreds of years while the European sword form was constantly changing.
http://www.thearma.org/essays/hype.htm(this essay addresses the issue quite well).

Also Samurai armor was made of the same metal as the katana so obviously the katana couldn't pierce Samurai armor.(unlike in some movies). The katana is more of a slashing weapon than a bashing weapon.

(If you want to see a really sharp sword check out the swords made by Muslim warriors in Damascus. Their style of sword making was eventually adopted by the Europeans after the Crusades).

Stabbing through a car door isn't that impressive of a feat. You can do that with most blades.

The katana is certainly cool but it has its limits.(also swords were the last resort in every culture including Japanese. They prefered long reaching weapons such as the naginata or spear). Like others have mentioned the Samurai certainly wasn't stupid but neither was the Viking or knight.

Katanas are indeed used for slashing, that is their strong point. They slash between the joints of armor, I never said they would pierce it. That's just silly.
And I really don't know why you are comparing the katana to European or even Damascus swords. It has nothing to do with them and it rarely (if at all) had to fight against a European or Damascus sword. It was good in the culture and time it was created.


And I was serious about the blog, Yamamaya. You want to complain and act smart, do it there.



And thank you, Alcuinus.

goldenspines (post: 1402071) wrote:
And I was serious about the blog, Yamamaya. You want to complain and act smart, do it there.

And thank you, Alcuinus.

delete this message.

Yamamaya, when a mod asks you to stop something, it's not a matter of getting personal. It's a matter of a mod asking you to do something. There is no need for the disrespect you just showed Goldy. It ends right now.

Yamamaya wrote:Please don't bring Deadliest Warrior into this. DW is notorious for historical inaccuracies.

But they did get the chain mail right in the Viking vs Samurai episode. Chainmail was riveted not butted like that crap they often use in DW episodes.(However that episode was still crap for a number of other reasons. No Viking worth his salt would strap his shield to his freaking arm.)

Keep in mind that Japan had limited iron ore supplies so they had to make due with what they had, hence the reason why they never used plate armor.

I just get irritated when people automatically assume the exotic east weapondry>>>European weapondry. Keep in mind that European weapondry was just as exotic to the Easterners as their weapons are to us!

Okay, I won't. I didn't know that your a history major in your high school.


[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

Roy Mustang (post: 1402084) wrote:Okay, I won't. I didn't know that your a history major in your high school.


[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

Sorry didn't mean it come off the way it did.

Deadliest Warrior just has a bad way of being...inconsistent and ignoring facts.

...I told you this would get bloody.
I have a bokken, does that count?

Did I hear chainmaille? I do believe I heard something about chainmaille.

Ante Bellum (post: 1402163) wrote:Did I hear chainmaille? I do believe I heard something about chainmaille.

Yes you did. Do you desire chinamaille Sir Ante?

I MAKE chainmaille.
Japanese chainmaille did not serve the same purpose as European chainmaille. It was mostly used in joints, to help connect plates, and because it was flexible. It was not made into full suits like in Europe.
Riveted chainmaille is very strong but even today is a labor intensive and very dangerous form of chainmaille to make. While chainmaille is indeed good armor, it did have several weak points. I don't have my notes with me right now so I can't give any specific examples.

Ante Bellum (post: 1402173) wrote:I MAKE chainmaille.
Japanese chainmaille did not serve the same purpose as European chainmaille. It was mostly used in joints, to help connect plates, and because it was flexible. It was not made into full suits like in Europe.
Riveted chainmaille is very strong but even today is a labor intensive and very dangerous form of chainmaille to make. While chainmaille is indeed good armor, it did have several weak points. I don't have my notes with me right now so I can't give any specific examples.

Well that makes sense considering how many rings it takes to create an entire suit of mail.

That's very interesting that you make chainmaille. Where did you learn to do it?