CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Hey there guys. Please excuse me if this is in the wrong area, but I didn't see anything related to travel or cultural issues.

Anyway this is a question to people who are Japanese, live in Japan, or have visited Japan. I have read quite a few articles that declare that Japan is quite a xenophobic society even to the point of some hot springs putting signs up saying, "Japanese only." I have also heard it is extremely difficult for non Japanese immigrants to get jobs.


Have any of you noticed this xenophobia or been treated like "dirty gajins?"(foreigners).

As far as I know, that's mostly a stereotype. My husband spent some time in Japan and he didn't make mention of extreme xenophobia. But others have had bad experiences. It probably depends on the area you're in, and the individuals you encounter.

I have traveled to Japan five times now, and lived in Korea for two years.

I have never experienced discrimination directly, nor have I been made to feel like a 'dirty gaijin'. For the most part, I was treated very politely (unlike in France, where I was pretty much snubbed when it became apparent I was not French); if I made an effort to communicate in Japanese or honor various customs, attitudes towards me improved even more.

That said, I did notice a certain reluctance in Japan if I was sitting on a train for people to voluntarily sit beside me -- perhaps it was just coincidence, although it happened often enough to make me think something was not normal. Also, especially in the cities, some Japanese had no hesitation to cut in front of me in line -- again, whether this was intentional or coincidental I'm not sure.

I do know for a fact that certain establishments are 'Japanese only', but I have never been in need of whatever services were offered there.

Now, please note, I am a white male American. I've seen people of other non-Western countries treated more brusquely, especially at the airports. I can't comment as to what job prospects are like.

I would agree that, deep down, the Japanese (like the Chinese and Koreans) have a very strong racial identity that excludes foreigners from their "inner circles". I also witnessed that this circle excludes other Asians as well (e.g. the Japanese and Koreans don't mix much at all in certain settings). There is a lot of history behind this that stretches back several centuries.

Thank you for your input. I am aware of the deep ethnic pride that Japanese people hold to. This can, logically, lead to feelings that "foreigners will never be one of us." I am referring to gaijin immigrants in this sense.

Maybe I've read one too many horror stories about foreigners being discriminated in Japan. I would probably stand out quite a bit in Japan since I'm a tall, white redhead.

lol. It depends on the person I guess. In france, there were very nice people, and very mean people. Though the nicer people to foreigners tended to be younger.

I figure if I go to Japan, I'll have no problems as long as I keep my mouth shut. Once they figure out I can't speak Japanese, I'm done.

And yeah. I don't have any Japanese friends. So it makes sense I guess. It goes way back, and has to deal with how Korea basically got militarily dominated by Japan or China for centuries, and especially with how the Japanese treated Koreans in the war. Many older Koreans, or the ones who lived through the war, tend to dislike the idea of Japan in general. Although my Grandparents were too young to remember anything about that time.

However, in Korea, if you are Korean-American, there will be discrimination. My Mom had some trouble since she can't speak Korean very well, and I figure if I go, it won't be very welcoming. Of course, that's as soon as they find out I can't speak Korean.

My experience might be slightly skewed, because while I lived in Japan for about a year, I'm Asian-American, and thus what you could probably call a "ninja gaijin".

I will say right out that I have never seen any signs declaring "Japanese only" in any sort of public establishment, including hot springs and bath houses. I will say however that Japanese people do seem to feel a little more comfortable around people who look Asian than people who are obviously white. A very good friend of mine is white, 6'4", red-headed, and more fluent in Japanese than I am -- but of course, we ran into situations where people were reluctant to speak with him, even though he was obviously quite capable of holding his own in a conversation.

I think, for the most part, because Japan is, well, largely Japanese, you should expect stares, you should expect that people think you know nothing of the culture or language (and to be honest, 75% of the time they'd probably be right), and you should expect different treatment. I wouldn't call it honest to god xenophobia, though -- more of an underexposure to other ethnicities. I think, though, that should you go to Japan, the way to garner respect is to try and roll the way the Japanese roll. Play by their rules, don't be a brash gaijin, etc. You'll still be "the gaijin" -- I don't really think there's a way to shake that label, but at least you'd be the gaijin who gets a measure of respect.

EDIT: And to add, being a singing, dancing English monkey (IE an English teacher) is one of the easier career choices while living in Japan. I don't know about getting an average, run of the mill job (and quite frankly wouldn't recommend it considering Japanese company culture), but I do know that one of my history professors of non-Asian descent was able to land a job there for a couple years.

People might stare, and children definitely stare. My uncle even had kids point at him and call him a foreigner. That's all I have experienced though. It's not like America where you can expect different people everywhere, like Debitt said Japan is mostly Japanese. Foreigners really do stand out.

[quote="Debitt (post: 1340688)"]My experience might be slightly skewed, because while I lived in Japan for about a year, I'm Asian-American, and thus what you could probably call a "ninja gaijin".

I will say right out that I have never seen any signs declaring "Japanese only" in any sort of public establishment, including hot springs and bath houses. I will say however that Japanese people do seem to feel a little more comfortable around people who look Asian than people who are obviously white. A very good friend of mine is white, 6'4", red-headed, and more fluent in Japanese than I am -- but of course, we ran into situations where people were reluctant to speak with him, even though he was obviously quite capable of holding his own in a conversation.

I think, for the most part, because Japan is, well, largely Japanese, you should expect stares, you should expect that people think you know nothing of the culture or language (and to be honest, 75%]

It's understandable that they're hesistant to talk with gaijins since their society is rather homogenous(whereas America is a melting pot.)

I've started to study Japanese and I hope to visit Japan someday. If I get stared at for being a 6'1 red head with a System of a Down t-shirt on, so be it. I'll just learn enough about the culture, customs, and propiety so I don't stand out as the stupid gaijin.

Although I'll definitely have to work on my temper. I get irritated very easily and I could see myself giving somebody a nasty look for staring at me or refusing to speak to me.

I think it really depends on where in Japan you are. In a place like Tokyo, where there are more foreigners, you probably won't get anything other than a few double takes, especially if you have decent communication skills.

However, I lived in a very rural part of Japan - believe it or not, Japan isn't all big bustling cities like Tokyo! - and there I had people see me coming and cross the road to walk on the other side of the street to avoid me. I saw it happen more than once. I also had a shopkeeper completely ignore me and call another Japanese person who was behind me in line to serve them first. Now, I should clarify this with the fact that I was told by another Japanese person that more than likely this was because I was so obviously a foreigner - I'm blonde haired and blue eyed - that the people who avoided/ignored me were more than likely just afraid that I would start speaking to them in English, or another language they didn't understand, and therefore would not be able to communicate with me. Since shaming someone is a SERIOUS no-no in Japan, they were trying to avoid shaming both me and themselves.

Those cases I've mentioned, though, were few and far between. For the most part, the Japanese people I met were kind, courteous, and extremely willing to go to any lengths to be sure that I was as comfortable in their culture as I could be.

And I agree with Debitt, English teaching is gonna be the easiest "in" as far as jobs go.

...that the people who avoided/ignored me were more than likely just afraid that I would start speaking to them in English, or another language they didn't understand, and therefore would not be able to communicate with me. Since shaming someone is a SERIOUS no-no in Japan, they were trying to avoid shaming both me and themselves.

That actually never occurred to me while I was in the country, but that really makes a lot of sense. It always explains why people would be so "O_o;" at me when they heard both languages coming out of my mouth. I remember a McDonald's employee who looked ready to explode when he heard me speaking English to my friends, then go up to the register and order in Japanese.

Considering I one day plan to travel to Japan, I actually find this thread very informative (especially since on the top of my list are historic sites and various rural countryside). Unfortunately, I have absolutely no skill in foreign languages whatsoever, so I've been worried what I'm going to do to cross the communication barrier, since I'd hesitate to mispronounce any language anywhere.

I'd imagine whatever "Xenophobia" there is a largely because the Japanese are so heavily concentrated, foreigners tend to stick out of a crowd, along with the stereotype of treating everything and everyone as some kind of tourist attraction. Pace yourself to act like a normal, breathing human being, and things should be fine. Maybe.

Also, remember that a lot of Japanese are still worried over H1N1, so a lot of them wear masks. What does this have to do with xenophobia? My uncle and his friend (his friend is Australian but looks a little Mexican) were in a convenience store and the friend sneezed. Really loudly. And everyone. Just. Stared. So if you sneeze and people are worried...yeah.
Tokyo isn't the friendliest of areas. The saying is, you don't need to know Japanese in Tokyo because you don't speak to anyone. Kyoto, on the other hand, is a bit friendlier.

ShiroiHikari (post: 1340656) wrote:As far as I know, that's mostly a stereotype. My husband spent some time in Japan and he didn't make mention of extreme xenophobia. But others have had bad experiences. It probably depends on the area you're in, and the individuals you encounter.

Japan's xenophobia doesn't show itself the same way it tends to in the US. There isn't usually violence against foreigners, but there is discrimination in many small ways. Being a foreigner can keep you from getting promotions and even jobs, and this will not go away soon.

I have an Ethnically Korean, but born in Japan friend. Despite being in the second Generation in his family born in Japan, because he had a Korean last name, he had to wear an "Alien Registration card" and got rejected jobs because "We don't hire foreigners" He doesn't speak Korean, Japanese is his first language, but he was never able to fully be a part of Japanese society... This extends, as well, to children of Japanese parents who lived outside of Japan, and even to some extent to students who went to college outside of Japan for a few years. They actually have a term for Japanese people who've left for a few years, and people say that they're like foreigners... There is this preservation of Japanese society that is both a blessing and a curse.

Of course this changes slowly over time, as the older generations die out, but there are plenty in the younger generations who've been taught the same way. The news tends to focus on crimes when they're committed by either foreigners or otaku, and since there are so few foreigners in japan overall, there's also the natural sense of something different when someone shows up who doesn't look Japanese...

If you think that's bad, though... I have a Korean American acquaintance who said she can't visit Korea because of fear of someone thinking she's a spy from the north... Can't really verify that one, though... It did sound weird, but she insisted on it... That she can't visit family, and that it's a major problem for Korean Americans. *shrug*

I have a lot of sources on the stuff I said about Japan, though. There are also plenty of people who say nothing happened to them at all. Guess it depends on what you do there, how long you're there, etc...

I can't speak for Japan, but when I was in China for two months, we lived in Xi'an, which doesn't see nearly as many foreigners as Beijing, and we got lots of stares. People were still nice to us, though, and a few people asked to take pictures with us. The worst part was knowing that the people, especially shopkeepers, assumed we were made of money just because we were white. Of course, we knew about bargaining, which surprised them I think. I wasn't that good at it at first, but one guy in our group managed to get a lot of shopkeepers mad at him, XD. But I think the most blatant form of discrimination we saw happened after we were there for almost a month or a little over a month. Someone in the apartment complex my teacher was living in called the police and said there was a foreigner there, so they came and she had to show them her passport and all that stuff. Most of the other people we interacted with were really nice to us, though.

At one point, we went through a rural town and we certainly got more attention there, but it was one of those towns that has a tourist attraction or is near one, so those folks were probably more used to seeing foreigners. We even stayed a couple nights in a hotel in a town in the mountains and I really don't recall anyone there treating us badly or differently.

What's funny is that near the end of our two months, we went to Beijing for a few days and we were like "Why are there so many white people here? Ugh!" because we all felt like we were natives in a sense by that point, XD. Also, as I said before, Xi'an doesn't have as many tourists walking around, so compared to that Beijing felt like a plain old city in America.

Ante Bellum (post: 1340729) wrote:H1N1.

Hehe.... Hiney...

But seriously. I know my fair share of people who have gone over as part of learning experiences. Generally speaking they were treated with no less kindness than anyone else. I'm not saying Japan is the golden land where all human sin and hate has been erased, but I think it's entirely possible that cultural paradigm has greated an environment where predjudice expresses itself in ways other than the American kneejerk violence.

If anyone experiences discrimination in another country, let it be a reminder to treat foreigners well in your own country. It happens a lot in the United States, too, towards Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, etc.

Mr. Rogers (post: 1340794) wrote:If anyone experiences discrimination in another country, let it be a reminder to treat foreigners well in your own country. It happens a lot in the United States, too, towards Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, etc.

Yes it definitely does occur in the United States however that is racism not xenophobia. Also there are many cities/areas in the U.S. that have a huge mixture of cultures. That is not the case in Japan.

Of course this is a good principle to follow.

Yamamaya (post: 1340804) wrote:Yes it definitely does occur in the United States however that is racism not xenophobia. Also there are many cities/areas in the U.S. that have a huge mixture of cultures. That is not the case in Japan.

Of course this is a good principle to follow.

I might have to slightly disagree. I will use the example of my city, Chicago, for example. Although it is one of the most diverse cities in the USA, at the same time, it is also one of the most segregated. There are many races, but they sometimes live in separate areas.

For issues like this, I think it can be hard to come to any absolute conclusion. How the issue is handled varies from person to person. I suppose you can conclude general trends, though.

And I would argue that Xenophobia is still a big issue in the US. Take for instance, that less than a decade ago it was coming back in to use to call Muslims "Towelhead" which is way not cool.

This makes me think about the time that I was in one part of New Mexico and Native Americans didn't want to have any part of my party and didn't want us around the area.

I think France is more xenophobia then Japan is. There was a poll that came out this summer that was a world wide traveling poll that ask who were the rudest and nicest people, when they traveled.

France was rated #1 as the most rudest people in the world by the poll, when came to foreigners. It even said that most people in France will take trips within their own country, then other parts of the world.

Japan, Canada and most of the other European, Australia and New Zealand were rated the most nicest people to foreigners.

United States was rated in the middle of the list, but we were rated the biggest in buying and tips in other countries.


[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang [/color][/font]

Ante Bellum (post: 1340729) wrote:Also, remember that a lot of Japanese are still worried over H1N1, so a lot of them wear masks. What does this have to do with xenophobia? My uncle and his friend (his friend is Australian but looks a little Mexican) were in a convenience store and the friend sneezed. Really loudly. And everyone. Just. Stared. So if you sneeze and people are worried...yeah.

Actually it's more than just H1N1 -- any time you get sick and start displaying symptoms like coughing or sneezing, you're sort of expected to wear the mask. They pop up a lot during cold/flu season, especially. My professor sort of explained it to me in that it's sort of a way to outwardly tell people you're sick, so they can try to avoid you if at all possible. Such huge population density means illness can spread faster, etc. So if you get sick, get a mask, just to save everyone strife. >>;

As for crime, it's actually pretty true that crimes by foreigners can get blown out of proportion -- add this to the fact that you as a foreigner have very few legal rights in Japan and that the court system loves handing down guilty verdicts, you have huge incentive to behave yourself very well over there.

Ah. I just figured it was that, because I got a pamphlet about it at customs. Funny thing is, I got sick after leaving Tokyo and had this huge coughing fit on the highway bus, but no one seemed to pay attention.

Roy Mustang (post: 1340826) wrote:France was rated #1 as the most rudest people in the world by the poll, when came to foreigners. It even said that most people in France will take trips within their own country, then other parts of the world.


[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang [/color][/font]

While this may be true, I think it's focused mostly in Paris...There's something about that city. Outside of Paris, I think things are a lot friendlier.

Which is why nobody takes France seriously. Jk.

From what I've heard, xenophobia in Japan is a bit more subtle and not quite in your face as American racism.

As to the Japanese legal system, the best thing to do is not get arrested. In the Japanese legal system, you're guilty until proven innocent and police are known to use some pretty agressive interogation techinques to force confessions out of arrested suspects.

I think it depends in which country you are going to. Their are places in Japan where Japan where much more open to change and were able to go with the flow...But their are places obcourse that Xenophobia is very evident because of culture and traditions I guess ??

We're swinging a little out of scope for this thread. Let's try to keep it to the original question of foreigners in Japanese society.

http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html#Isesaki

This... This is the biggest proof of Japanese xenophobia outside of testimony from those affected directly by it, such as my ethnically korean, born in japan friends denied jobs due to their name and forced to wear Alien Registration Cards despite having been born in Japan.

Some of them are sort of understandable (at least be able to speak Japanese or have a translator with you before entering, I'd expect the same thing from someone in the US with English) some are flat out "Asians only" or "Japanese people only"

While a couple of these actually make sense (I highly suspect a yakuza brothel cares little about foreign tourism), the repeated exclusion of Japanese citizens who simply appear gaijin is immensely troubling. I can understand wariness of foreigners, foreign languages, and behavior, etc., but chances are if they have a Japanese passport they know what's up guys.

Ante Bellum wrote:People might stare, and children definitely stare. My uncle even had kids point at him and call him a foreigner.

When I was in the Navy, a friend of mine was telling us about an experience he had when he was in Greece on a previous cruise (he's black). He said he was walking down the street, minding his own business, when a little girl pointed at him and said something to her mother, and the mother looked at him, grabbed the girl, and ran to the other side of the street.

I'm not sure how I'd react if that happened to me. XD

Anyway, yeah. Good find, Bob. I especially liked the part where the one dude tried to appeal to the "Harmony Between Nations" thing when a business denied him service, and the guy just shrugged.

Wow. That's not even subtle, that's downright rude.