I must be wrong... (Izzy, North and South)

[Dante]

I have to be... and it's driving me crazy, can someone please guide me in the err of my ways!

Izzy: Without a compass, we don't even know which way is north!
Tentomon: Wait, I do!
Izzy: Well, which way is it?
Tentomon: It's the opposite of south!

I recently read this quote in a signature... the first thing that came to mind is "why do I need a compass to tell the general direction of North?"

My thought process is as follows.

1) Look at the direction the sun is travelling.

2) Face this direction (You are now looking west)

3) Raise your right arm...

4) Look in the direction of your right arm... that a' way is north! .

Is it just because I've lived in Arizona my whole life and you can't use this same method to determine the direction of North as a general whole everyplace else? I must be wrong, otherwise, save for the highly trained compasses would ultimately be a useless tool... please someone correct the err of my thought process O_O.

[Monkey J. Luffy]

It doesn't work that way when there is no sun 50% of the time...
MA stinks!!!

[Esoteric]

I don't think it would work all that well in Alaska either.. where the sun tends to circle the horizon.

[EricTheFred]

Also problematic on a cloudy day, or in a heavily wooded area. I know you don't get too many of either of those in Arizona, of course...

[Fish and Chips]

Yeah, I generally make it a policy not to look at the sun.

[Tsukuyomi]

Yeah, I generally make it a policy not to look at the sun.

I lol'd xDD

I'm not sure, because everything depends how which way you're standing o.o?

[EricTheFred]

I lol'd xDD

I'm not sure, because everything depends how which way you're standing o.o?

Step 2 in his instructions (and in the Boy Scout manual): Face the direction the sun is traveling.

[Cognitive Gear]

Erm, actually, the sun thing is useful no matter where you are on the planet (barring the poles themselves.) You don't need to look at the sun, and I certainly advise against it, as you can't really see it's movement with your eye anyways. If you wish to use the sun's movement to discover which direction North is, you can:

1. Find a fixed object, or place an upright straight stick into the ground.
2. Mark the location of it's shadow (preferably the tip of it).
3. Wait about 15 minutes.
4. Mark the new location of the shadow's tip.
5. A straight line through the two lines is an approximate East West line, with the first mark being West.

If you stand between the two marks with the first mark on your left, you will be facing North.


Another way: Using an analog watch, you can find north (This is for the Northern Hemisphere)

1. Holding the watch horizontally, point the hour hand at the sun.
2. Find the halfway point between the hour hand and the number 12. This mid point is the north south line.


At night, you can use the "North Star" (Again, Northern Hemisphere)

1. Find the north star, located as the end of the handle of the Little Dipper Constellation. Alternatively, find the Big Dipper constellation, and find the two lowest stars in it (part of the pot that is not connected to the handle). These two stars form a line that points to the north star.

Make in imaginary line straight down to earth, this line would mark true north. Find a nice landmark to make it easier to navigate.

Yes, I knew this off the top of my head. I blame being an Eagle Scout. :p

[Dante]

But a compass doesn't work well without sunlight either (the moon and stars can be used at night in an equally valid way to the sun anyways)

So... This means that if Izzy knows what he's talking about. He's stuck at one of the planet's poles and hence no matter which way he goes he's already generally head south or north. Plus a jacket and a blanket would be far more valuable then a compass .

[EricTheFred]

But a compass doesn't work well without sunlight either (the moon and stars can be used at night in an equally valid way to the sun anyways)

There's a very wide range of weather conditions in which the sun is not visible, but the compass needle is. And if you're properly equipped, then there also the flashlight option.

Anyhow, this sailing man can assure you that there is also 75% of the planet in which your sticks and scratches in the ground just ain't gonna cut it.

[Warrior4Christ]

It doesn't work in the Antarctic.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

[quote="EricTheFred (post: 1326926)"]There's a very wide range of weather conditions in which the sun is not visible, but the compass needle is. And if you're properly equipped, then there also the flashlight option.

Anyhow, this sailing man can assure you that there is also 75%]

And those suckers can tell direction and distance by using a clock!

[Paul]

Ok. I'm with Cognitive Gear on this one. Taken from a standard issue Boy Scout Handbook, he would be correct in the alternative methods for finding North. Of course those were just a few of the many possibilities.

But let's get back to the basis of Pascal's problem. Why do you need a compass to find North? Because when you are in a fixed location and are just testing out a theory, you don't. But when you are a lost hiker, it could mean your life.

Survival Orientation 101: Help! I’m lost!

Having a compass to help you find North helps you, the hiker to have a general sense of orientation. Even the most skilled and experienced survival expert will tell you the human mind cannot find north or follow a general course of a straight line, in fact it’s probable you will walk in circles and not even know it. When you do realize that you just walked in a circle, it will often sink into you the sudden realization you are truly lost. At this point in time, you are very scared and your mind will do crazy things. Then when you are trying the stick and shadow or the watch method, you will second guess everything you are supposed to do to get it right. Then when you discover you made a mistake, your mind gets worse.

Having a compass with you, from the simple North, South, East, West bubble compasses you find on top of glorified Rambo Knives to the very sophisticated Army or BSA issue flip-top, with the line of sight lines, and the little numbers giving you almost precise South by South/West with a few degrees to the right (or left) bearings to shoot you home; will give you the lost hiker, instant unquestionable direction to which way is North. That, my friends gives your mind the sense of being able to control a part of an out of control situation. In other words, it can help you calm your mind and think sensibly, and possibly walk you out of your lost situation with nothing more than annoyance.

Compasses, along with an area map, are invaluable. Nothing against GPS units, but they are electronic, often times needs the proper signals to work because satellites can't read GPS by your very needed water source in a valley, which can result in a very hazardous and unnecessary climb out to a hill top to gain that signal. Lost means survival my friends, and that means don’t take chances. In fact, lost means stop moving and sit down unless you are in immediate sudden danger. A spranged ankle could mean your life. Learning how to orientate with a map and compass is a skill you can easily learn and possess with a Boy Scout Handbook. That is why you need a compass to find North. It could mean your life.

Trust me. I know.

Paul

[EricTheFred]

And those suckers can tell direction and distance by using a clock!

Only if we're traveling strictly north-south. The second you start add changes east-west, your clock's accuracy comes into question unless you can correctly plot exactly how you have moved and adjust for it.

Which kills the whole 'find north by using the hour-hand on your watch' thing.

For dead-reckoning, you absolutely must have the following:
An accurate time-piece.
The knowledge how to adjust for change in longitude (tables, although you can calculate it.)
A way to plot (keep track of) where you are.
And... a compass!!


And building on Paul's very good analysis:
A compass gives you two things you don't get with the sun: accuracy and portability.

If you have very accurate navigation instruments, you can do a lot with the sun. But if you are just Joe Blow in hiking boots, you don't have this. Simple methods can be accurate in one place, but they rely on stuff you can't carry with you as you move and they take a long time to work (which in a low-water situation, you don't have.) A compass saves time and energy.