CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

*Warning, this thread has a high risk of being locked. Please, and I mean PLEASE try to be objective and state your views in a manner that would not represent any danger to the thread. Its a rather big subject.*

Ok, so quite a few of you probably are not familiar with CERN. The European Organization for Nuclear Research. Now, since 1994 I think they have been developing a rather huge machine. The Large Hadron Collider *LHC* which wants to study how things where in the short aftermath of the big bang theory. In hope of studying the so called 'God particle' that they have been talking alot about.

There has also been talk of the danger behind this project. Now, CERN has had this according to their site reviewed by their own safety committee as well as several individual scientists that all have had about the same response to the safety concerns. That it is safe. However, there is also a fairly formiddable annoumts of critics to this project that has had has taken this to the court, but their demands where rejected. This means that the first parts of this experiment will start the 10th of september this year. They still advocate the dangers of this project potentialy starting a black hole. Although the CERN have said that there is a chance that a black hole might appear, it would dissolve as quickly as it was created. The critics fear that it might get caught up in the gravity of the earth and then stabilize and expand. Some of their points can be read here. http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/anon6.htm

As an example the satellite Planck (launch is scheduled for the end of 2008) or the neutrino detector KATRIN in 2009 could bring answers about the possible MOND theory. In addition, the use of particle detectors to study cosmic rays over many years could give data as significant as that from colliders.


This is probably their main point.

However, as things stands now, the first parts of this project will launch on september the 10th.

Now, I am always sceptical to events that may have world threatening effects. There was a time back shortly after the first nukes where launched that theorized that they could probably make the air heat up so much that it would blow up along their entire earth surface. Now, while this was disproven much later. There was always a risk factor running around. Would I have protested against nukes based on that back in the day *If I lived then that is.* when we did not have all the facts. In truth yes, and it may be the same regarding this subject. I am not comfortable with it and I think the main point of the LHC protest bears some credit too it. If we where to study the data gathered from the research we would get from those two projects and then further research upon the safety. I would be more comfortable with it if that was done. I just feel we are toying with powers we don't fully understand and that might have very unwanted side effects. This is purely my opinion on the matter. I would like to hear yours as well.

Again, for the sake of the life of this thread. Be respectful, be very cautious if you clash with another person on this subject as there may be people for and against it. I also recommend reading on both sides of the matter before makeing a statement on what you think regarding CERN's most recent project.

That being said, I want to hear your opinions as well. I am by no means a nuclear physicist so I can't really bear much of a prediction to the matter. That being said, be respectful, objective and have a good time.

If the world falls into a black hole in a couple of days... Then I don't have to correct any more physics homework. YAY!!!!

(And to be frank... I can't think of a more fascinating way to die then to fall into a black hole. I mean, I would finally understand GR first hand because I would be experiencing it.) (I would however, like a large quantity of morphine/demoral while this was taking place please to avoid "growing pains", I want to ENJOY my death by black hole).

So... In conclusion, I hope it does form a giant black hole... but my hopes are dashed by theoretically tiny black holes go BANG. Plus, at the atomic level if you have a particle sized black hole, I would still almost guess that the electromagnetic forces would still dominate the poor thing till it went bang.

Finally... JM... Electrons are point particles with a radius of zero and a finite mass... inifinite density suggests that they too should be black holes... We're made up of these things JM... So why aren't you a black hole?

I don't think we would be able to really react, nor experiense it Pascal.

Black holes from what I have read are things we don't really have so great an understanding off. However Wikipedia comes to some help here.

A black hole is a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful that nothing, not even electromagnetic radiation (e.g. visible light), can escape its pull after having fallen past its event horizon. The term derives from the fact that the absorbsion of visible light renders the hole's interior invisible, and indistinguishable from the black space around it.

I would guess my electrons would not be charged enough. Nor do my gravitational pull have any significant value.

The idea of an object with gravity strong enough to prevent light from escaping was proposed in 1783 by the Reverend John Michell[4], an amateur British astronomer. In 1795, Pierre-Simon Laplace, a French physicist independently came to the same conclusion.[5][6] Black holes, as currently understood, are described by the general theory of relativity. This theory predicts that when a large enough amount of mass is present in a sufficiently small region of space, all paths through space are warped inwards towards the center of the volume, preventing all matter and radiation within it from escaping.

You are into these things Pascal. Would particles collideing at great speed potentialy form something like a black hole? From my knowlegde black holes are formed often by collideing stars, but if the force behind it was the cause. Then why does VY Canis Majoris still exist? *I would guess there is some force in that thing.*

Again, I am a novice at fields like these. Going into a debate by launching this thing is not really my desire. Getting relative answers/feedback from both novice and adept however is what I am trying to get.

Angel37 (post: 1257493) wrote:"it's a trap"

Bwah hah hah hah hah hah hah hah hah!

Black holes are (to my knowledge) theoretically the result of collapsing stars, not collisions. Its one of the paths a dying star can follow, along with going supernova, and burning out.

That being said, I rather doubt that a single particle or even a series could cause said reaction since it would require essentially something from nearly nothing, which is against the laws of physics as we currently know them to be. Gravity is caused by mass and electrons having a finite mass automatically have a finite gravity of sorts (though I'm not versed in field physics) and would therefore have to have a set quantity to produce a larger amount of gravity. There are several other colliders on earth working with antimatter and other small particles and nothing has happened yet so I would say the odds are pretty low.

Whatever collided would have to become a superdense supersmall mass relatively quickly to generate enough gravity to do anything, let alone become a black hole, which would require it to create more gravity than all of the mass in our solar system combined does.

If it were to happen the process of acquiring enough mass to go black hole would probably destroy the solar system, and thereby, us first, possibly even before it became something recognizable as a gravitic anomalty or a black hole.

A good summary of the LHC can be found here.

Jaden Mental wrote:There has also been talk of the danger behind this project. Now, CERN has had this according to their site reviewed by their own safety committee as well as several individual scientists that all have had about the same response to the safety concerns. That it is safe. However, there is also a fairly formiddable annoumts of critics to this project that has had has taken this to the court, but their demands where rejected.

There are no "formidable numbers of critics", certainly not among physicists (the only people whose opinions on the LHC's safety really matter anyways).

Angel37 (post: 1257493) wrote:

Rolflolololol.

I'm interested in seeing what they come up with. If they do create a world-destroying black hole (which I seriously doubt), then, well, I guess that's what happens. God's in control.

.rai//

A black hole can be formed by any object having radius less then:

2Gm\c^2

if we divide both sides by m we have a density less then 2G\c^2. Electrons have a finite mass and a zero radius in theory, so they could theoretically be considered black holes. It makes a bit of sense too, electrons are charged particles of the same charge throughout. If they could blow themselves to bits, why dont they. But if they are black holes... why dont they eat everything up JM? Just some food for thought.

Angel37 (post: 1257493) wrote:

I lol'd really hard

Raiden no Kishi (post: 1257505) wrote:If they do create a world-destroying black hole (which I seriously doubt), then, well, I guess that's what happens. God's in control.

Ditto that....I'm think that if these ppl are toying with a power that could have "earth destroying" results, especially if it went against the Gods plans, I have no doubt he would interfere....It could be through a legal group, an army or secret service attack, or maybe even through one person....But I know that if these guys are "interfereing" with His plans, I have no doubt that He will interfere with theirs......

To respond to Fish...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DGFuHC75aY&NR=1

Famous last words from a scientist: Hey y'all! Watch this!

There's an interesting article here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/09/05/scilhc105.xml

Among other things to note, it seems people are actually starting to threaten some of the scientists involved.

More germane to the safety angle however is this:

The new report published today provides the most comprehensive evidence available to confirm that nature's own cosmic rays regularly produce more powerful particle collisions than those planned within the LHC.

Well, if there is a world-destroying black hole that's created from this...at least I won't have to worry about finding a job.

Well, I don't really see it happening, Jaden. When relating this to Revelations, God lays out for us what would be happening in the end times. Ultimately, He said he would destroy the earth with fire, not a black hole. If it did happen, wouldn't we all already be in Heaven when it does?

Sakaki Onsei (post: 1257774) wrote:Well, if there is a world-destroying black hole that's created from this...at least I won't have to worry about finding a job.

Heh. Ditto that.

Its about 11 more hours til the first beam. I am not sure what opperations are to follow after that if it is a success. Regardless, it will be inntresting.

oooh only 10.5 more hours till potential destruction of the Earth?

Well, at least I get out of my geography and psychology tests

ITS THEEE END OF THE WORLD AZ WE KNOW KNOW IT! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT! AND I FEEL FINE!!!!

@_@

(Couldn't help myself)

I think that's precisely midnight in my timezone. It's time to head to the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

[SIZE="5"]The World Ends With You D:<[/SIZE]

In soviet Russia, the black hole has you.

Sweden, too.

Tsukuyomi (post: 1257997) wrote:[SIZE="5"]The World Ends With You D:<[/SIZE]

No, the world ends with France.

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1258000) wrote:No, the world ends with France.

Ironic, the station is near the border of Switzerland and France. I think CERN was started by the French too.

S'why I said it.

heeey the world's not ending yet 8D