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[font="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][SIZE="3"][color="Blue"]Okay, so the only thing I do at work all day is read newspapers.

This includes the Courier Journal, a Louisville based paper that slants things liberally so I normally don't pay too much attention to anything it says other than the bare facts.

But sometimes those speak for themselves.

Over the weekend, right on the street I work (on the other end of the same block actually). A mother, her five year old daughter, and the girl's best friend on their way home from swimming lessons were runover by a man trying to escape police. The mother survived with a broken arm and mangled leg, but both of the girls were killed (in case you were wondering, they were in a crosswalk with going at the appropriate time on the traffic light).

At this point I was depressed about something so tragic, but thinking "this stuff happens and is going to happen again." Then I look at the guy's criminal record.

He is in his early 20's with 79 charges on him, including drug possession and assault only 3 of which were current warrants (in other words, already caught on the others). WHAT ON EARTH WAS THIS GUY DOING IN THE STREETS?!

I mean, if all 70+ accounts were minor things like shoplifting and disorderly conduct that would be one thing - but when he has multiple accounts of drug crimes and violent crimes - now including 2 new murders he just added with these girls - why on earth was he out of jail? And its not like he was out on bail awaiting trial - he had already served all the crimes he had been caught for.

Now me saying this is kind of awkward. I'm not a big fan of our jail system. You may not can tell from this note, but I actually think we OVERUSE jails - but I don't think criminals should be out free either. I think jails should be for violent offenders only - and even then only the most violent or those who are repeatingly violent (in case you were wondering, I think we ought to make more use of house arrest for white collar crimes and making the criminals restore whatever it is they destroyed/stole/etc - I could write a note on that, maybe I will, let me know if you would be interested). But this guy obviously was
violent - a lot.

I'm hopeful that this incident does something to shake up our system of letting violent criminals out early. In the meantime, please pray for the two families and that somehow Christ will show himself in this situation for them. Especially pray for the mother, she is not doing well as far as her psyche is concerned.[/color][/SIZE][/SIZE][/font]

Terrible. Just terrible.

I, too, wonder how some people manage to stay out of jail. It's like, what do you have to do to make them lock you up? I hate to think of it.

Why? Because our judicial system is flawed.

It's always been flawed; it will always be flawed. All around the world they will be flawed; it's part of human-driven government's nature. People find loopholes (or they find lawyers to find the loopholes) and ways to keep from going to jail for a long time.

(btw, this was manslaughter, not murder... at least, that's what you can expect the lawyer to say for this guy).

There are two sides to fall on according to some philosopher whose name I forget, and we must decide... Which is better: to let a potential criminal go free or to put to death a godly man? Here in America, it's clear which route things usually go.

Take heart; God always sorts stuff out in the end. EVERYONE gets their just desserts.

I couldn't have said it any better, my friend.

This is a prime example of the flaws in our court systems... They want to jail offenders who drive without a current license, yet a man who obviously needs help and restriction is on the streets, causing havoc and wrecking lives...

This makes me very sad. I will pray for the mom with all my fervency.

I think it has a lot to do with a lack of God in society.

Slater (post: 1248923) wrote:There are two sides to fall on according to some philosopher whose name I forget, and we must decide... Which is better: to let a potential criminal go free or to put to death a godly man? Here in America, it's clear which route things usually go.

To this I would like to add one thing. To my knowledge, only one state in the USA actually has the sentence "life in prison" literally meaning life in prison...hmmm.

Hmm, it's funny how they let go of the repeated offenders, but keep the ones who have repent behind bars u_u

Peanut (post: 1248975) wrote:To this I would like to add one thing. To my knowledge, only one state in the USA actually has the sentence "life in prison" literally meaning life in prison...hmmm.

That still always gets me...how 'life' isn't lifelong. O_o

It's all just crazy, really. *sigh* Sometimes you just really want God t hurry up and come back already.

Slater (post: 1248923) wrote:Why? Because our judicial system is flawed.


(btw, this was manslaughter, not murder... at least, that's what you can expect the lawyer to say for this guy).

Yes, I expect he will make a plea deal to get out of murder down to manslaughter. The official charge however is murder, which is consistent with other KY road laws (DUI killing = murder, pretty much if you are doing anything illegal on the road other than speeding and you kill someone the resulting charge is murder).

Tsukuyomi (post: 1249007) wrote:Hmm, it's funny how they let go of the repeated offenders, but keep the ones who have repent behind bars u_u

I doubt that it's easy for ex-offenders to integrate back into society (based on testimonies from the prison ministry in my church). It's a huge struggle for our church members who try to help ex-offenders get back to the right track after their release.

Many folks who were released from prison with the sincerest intentions of becoming 'good', return to their offences again because 1) the society shuns them regardless of their repentance, including their family and 2) really, no one wants to give them a second chance. If that happened to me, I would have done the same. "Screw the world, why bother trying to be good? No one cares and will always judge me based on my past. I'll go back to the criminal life that I know."

We should be careful not to judge ex-offenders. All of us are sinners, we're no better than them in God's eyes.

If only our society would be less condemning (fearful) and focus on healing and helping others to pick up pieces of their broken lives.....it's sad.

Tundrawolf (post: 1248964) wrote:I think it has a lot to do with a lack of God in society.

This is such a terribly vague statement. I don't even know what you mean by this. I'm going to take a stab at comprehension and assume that you think humans don't have a basic capacity for morality.

Anyway, the system can be stupidly flawed, which is more or less unavoidable because the US is so big. Yesterday I was watching the news about 389 illegal immigrants who were discovered] and THEN deport them.

That's why this guy's not in jail, illegal immigrants are in them! </sarcasm>

Mave makes a really valid point though. We spend more time condemning than helping.

Mave (post: 1249143) wrote:I doubt that it's easy for ex-offenders to integrate back into society (based on testimonies from the prison ministry in my church). It's a huge struggle for our church members who try to help ex-offenders get back to the right track after their release.

Many folks who were released from prison with the sincerest intentions of becoming 'good', return to their offences again because 1) the society shuns them regardless of their repentance, including their family and 2) really, no one wants to give them a second chance. If that happened to me, I would have done the same. "Screw the world, why bother trying to be good? No one cares and will always judge me based on my past. I'll go back to the criminal life that I know."

We should be careful not to judge ex-offenders. All of us are sinners, we're no better than them in God's eyes.

If only our society would be less condemning (fearful) and focus on healing and helping others to pick up pieces of their broken lives.....it's sad.

I agree with everything you say. I was not saying we treat criminals right by any means. But there are two things.

One, the justice systems main concern is serving justice.

Two, criminals are not taught how to help get back into mainstream society or given any tools to do so.

Thirdly, your statement of "criminals" not being "trusted" is a bit broad. A man who has intentionally murdered someone, your right, I'm going to have a hard time trusting being around him. However, someone only guilty of theft etc many people I think we would be willing to help out by giving them a job, etc. just not where they would be tempted to do the same thing.

Also, there is a difference between judging a person comparing them to yourself and being blind to their faults. We all have faults and without Christ mercy, your right, we would all be at a lost. But Christ still knows my weaknesses and does not hesitate to call me out on them. There is also the fact that unlike Christ we cannot read someone's heart. This is where being "as wise as serpents and innocent as doves" comes into play. We should be trying to help them and non-condemning. But you dont put a thief in charge of your retirement fund. Just like even though Christ has forgiven me of my ultimate punishment but their are still consequences, and not just punishments (such as if I lie, people no longer trust me - thats not a punishment, but a consequence) I must deal with for my sins, criminals should also be forgiven, but consequences of their crimes will happen and their is nothing wrong about that, and overall you could say its good cause it serves as a deterrent for those being tempted.

Lastly, their is also a difference between a individual judging someone and government (which we see the Bible saying God uses) protecting its people. Christ's teaching to turn the other cheek were on an individual basis. We should turn the other cheek because we have some who is going to protect us (ultimately Christ, but many times he acts through other people and institutions such as the government) and therefore justice is not our individual concern, loving the enemy is. But for those called to serve the public, their concern is justice for the public.

Slater wrote:There are two sides to fall on according to some philosopher whose name I forget, and we must decide... Which is better: to let a potential criminal go free or to put to death a godly man? Here in America, it's clear which route things usually go.

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." This is the foundation of our criminal justice system. (Blackstone's formulation)

This is actually the Biblical position, as God said he would spare all of the guilty godless people in Sodom if even only ten good people could be found.

The opposite position is of course that of people like Pol Pot, which state that "It is better that ten innocents suffer than one guilty person escape."

Sparrowhawk (post: 1248849) wrote:[font="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"][SIZE="3"][color="Blue"]Okay, so the only thing I do at work all day is read newspapers.

This includes the Courier Journal, a Louisville based paper that slants things liberally so I normally don't pay too much attention to anything it says other than the bare facts.

But sometimes those speak for themselves.

Over the weekend, right on the street I work (on the other end of the same block actually). A mother, her five year old daughter, and the girl's best friend on their way home from swimming lessons were runover by a man trying to escape police. The mother survived with a broken arm and mangled leg, but both of the girls were killed (in case you were wondering, they were in a crosswalk with going at the appropriate time on the traffic light).

At this point I was depressed about something so tragic, but thinking "this stuff happens and is going to happen again." Then I look at the guy's criminal record.

He is in his early 20's with 79 charges on him, including drug possession and assault only 3 of which were current warrants (in other words, already caught on the others). WHAT ON EARTH WAS THIS GUY DOING IN THE STREETS?!

I mean, if all 70+ accounts were minor things like shoplifting and disorderly conduct that would be one thing - but when he has multiple accounts of drug crimes and violent crimes - now including 2 new murders he just added with these girls - why on earth was he out of jail? And its not like he was out on bail awaiting trial - he had already served all the crimes he had been caught for.

Now me saying this is kind of awkward. I'm not a big fan of our jail system. You may not can tell from this note, but I actually think we OVERUSE jails - but I don't think criminals should be out free either. I think jails should be for violent offenders only - and even then only the most violent or those who are repeatingly violent (in case you were wondering, I think we ought to make more use of house arrest for white collar crimes and making the criminals restore whatever it is they destroyed/stole/etc - I could write a note on that, maybe I will, let me know if you would be interested). But this guy obviously was
violent - a lot.

I'm hopeful that this incident does something to shake up our system of letting violent criminals out early. In the meantime, please pray for the two families and that somehow Christ will show himself in this situation for them. Especially pray for the mother, she is not doing well as far as her psyche is concerned.[/color][/SIZE][/SIZE][/font]

I surely will pray for them.

And I agree we need to protect the innocent.

I think its so much more than this one case. In order up hold the law we cant bend it so when criminals find loopholes they cant stop them. I hate to think what would happen if we didnt have a democracy.

We don't have a democracy, we have a republic.

I know it will take time but I will guess they will put the guy away for a long time.
Here in Maryland they just put the cuffs on two drivers who were involve in a drag race that killed eight people.
The story was that a crowd had gathered in the middle of the night for a drag race on a duel lane highway.
When two cars took off, the crowd moved onto the roadway. From behind them two cars were racing up to the first race at a 100 MPH without any lights and plowed through the crowd killing teens, adults and grandparents who had came to see the races.
One car left the scene but the other car was badly damaged and had one of the victims inside the car.
That driver had charges against him from other incidents and had lost his licence.
It took from Feb to yesterday to bring the charges against him and the other driver after the investigation.
The driver had told investigators he was not racing anyone and it took security cameras at a factory to show the different story.

79 charges are quite a bit, but these things can rack up at the same time as well (I doubt he committed 79 crimes each at different times, they probably were acquired in larger quantities). Furthermore, assault is not the same as assault with a deadly weapon, which may mean that he was involved in a lot fights (A fist fight where someone is punched in the gut once can acquire you this charge). In fact, I imagine that his drug lifestyle probably resulted in this (Although apparently he could support his drug addictions because you did not list theft on that list).

Furthermore, this mindset of 70+ charges likely led to the chase itself mostly because he knew he had nothing to lose by that point. The police chase was his first major crime, but he basically knew his life was over and the speed chase did little to effect the consequences (killing also did little to effect the consequences... heck if he have blown up three quarters of the United States it wouldn't have effected the consequences). Its the funny thing of convicting someone to x number of consecutive lifetime terms in jail so that they will get out at age 900 (Without parole for good behavior)... After someones life is significantly messed up enough, the judicial punishment system loses its effect.

I don't have a deep understanding of the judicial system, but at least thats how things have always looked to me when I've thought about it.

Two similar incidents I know of this week almost identical.
Here in my area a pregnant woman and her brother were ran down while walking along a roadway by a driver who was speeding. He crash into a tree after hitting the two people.
Both the woman and her brother were killed and the baby died at the hospital. The driver had numerious traffic violations which have meant taking
away his right to drive but he was still driving.
Then yesterday a female traffic director in New York City was struck by a driver who also had numerious traffic violations and no license.
She was thrown under a small school bus and trapped.
The people in the area lifted the bus and found out she was eight months pregnant and she was rushed to a nearby hospital. The woman died but the baby was in serious condition.