CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:48 pm**

Here's the article:
http://www.slate.com/id/2190482

I don't really know much about Christian pop culture, so I can't really criticize it or anything, but I really enjoyed reading this article. Please don't write this off as another secular article making fun of Christians.

There is also an excellent comment made by a "BenK" at the bottom of the article.

What are your thoughts?

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:01 pm**

I don't think the poster of that article really gets the point. EVERYBODY (Except for the people that don't exist and the ultraconservatives) likes Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert. And much like the rest of the US, not all Christians are into pop culture. Many are, but many are not. The same holds true for every other demographic.

So yeah, I think the author is trying to make connections that aren't really as blatant as she thinks.

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:20 pm**

...the writer lost me about halfway through page one...probably because I've never heard of...uhm...what's his name (closed down the page...don't wanna reopen it). And I really don't listen to much music unless it's by disney, PlusOne, or whatever else is on my computer, radio, etc.

oh..and MSP. My bro in law might like colbert, along with the rest of his bros (including my hubby) but I can't stand the guy...he's just...not funny.

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:17 pm**

Mr. SmartyPants (post: 1244311) wrote:I don't think the poster of that article really gets the point. EVERYBODY (Except for the people that don't exist and the ultraconservatives) likes Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert. And much like the rest of the US, not all Christians are into pop culture. Many are, but many are not. The same holds true for every other demographic.

So yeah, I think the author is trying to make connections that aren't really as blatant as she thinks.

Yes, but she's not talking about EVERYBODY, which, by the way, I think you mean, "all types of people." She's focusing specifically on Christians who:
- are concerned with the influences of secular pop culture on Christians today
- have created their own, arguably weaker, Christian copy of popular culture

I don't think you give the author much credit. I think she's intelligent enough to know that not everyone is into pop culture, and it would be annoying to have to keep specify, "Christians who are into pop culture." [Though even the claim that not all Christians are into pop culture can be argued. D: How many people do you know have those WWJD merchandise tucked away in their hosue somwhere?]

I also think you entirely missed the point of her article. She's not trying to make connections at all. She's pondering a Christian pop culture that she feels is inferior to the real thing.

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:34 pm**

For the first portion of the article I felt a profound disconnect between the writer's perception of Christianity and my own. It makes me wonder which one of us is actually out of touch with evangelical Christianity, because it could well be either. But as it moved into the description of Radosh's book, I thought it had good things to say about the commercialization of faith.

I think it's funny that the article uses John Stewart as an example, given his connection to Stephen Colbert. Colbert is Christian and likes Christians, and his criticism of the faults of those Christians are arguably more biting. Does this person have any self-critical apparatus in her own life? Is that an alien concept to her, or is it accurate to say that Christians don't have one either?

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:31 pm**

It sounds like the author has this idea in the beginning that Christians have no sense of humor, but I agree that most things labeled as "Christian" aren't that good (like music, for example).

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:29 pm**

LadyRushia (post: 1244342) wrote:It sounds like the author has this idea in the beginning that Christians have no sense of humor, but I agree that most things labeled as "Christian" aren't that good (like music, for example).

From what I gather, she feels that Christians limit themselves within certain boundaries, though I have to disagree on this one]
Does this person have any self-critical apparatus in her own life? Is that an alien concept to her, or is it accurate to say that Christians don't have one either?[/QUOTE]

You lost me at this part, UC. ;;;;

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:33 pm**

[quote="Puguni (post: 1244354)"]From what I gather, she feels that Christians limit themselves within certain boundaries, though I have to disagree on this one]

I'm inclined to agree here. Sometimes, you just have to be smart and realize that there are certain comedic styles that can't be sanitized. Rather than attempting to emulate those styles and attempt to "clean it up", time would be much better spent on capitalizing on what we actually can use. Know your limits and work with what you can, as I've seen a lot of Christian comedians do and totally rock with.

Another good idea would be to strive to become the best at your craft. If you feel like you're called to do something like Christian hip-hop, for example (and only for example, because Christian genres of all types are guilty of this, too), then do it... but PLEASE, don't suck!! Creating sub-standard copies of a secular genre makes us all look bad, as we've noticed from the many complaints about the Christian music scene by Christians and non-Christians alike. I feel like this matter in particular is something I've had to deal with myself... then again, I'm not much of a fan of American pop culture anyway.

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:12 pm**

This article reminds me of a book that I read a while ago entitled "Selling Jesus: Confessions of a Christian Bookstore Owner". From what I remember, it did a good job of pointing out the dangers of the commercialization of Christianity, but did not do a very good job of telling how to fix the problem.

As for Christian media being low quality rip offs of main stream products, there is a simple solution. Make high quality media.

uc pseudonym (post: 1244327) wrote:For the first portion of the article I felt a profound disconnect between the writer's perception of Christianity and my own. It makes me wonder which one of us is actually out of touch with evangelical Christianity, because it could well be either.

Agreed.

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:22 pm**

Puguni (post: 1244325) wrote:I also think you entirely missed the point of her article. She's not trying to make connections at all. She's pondering a Christian pop culture that she feels is inferior to the real thing.

Ah okay. In that case, I would agree with that assessment. XD

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:34 pm**

ich1990 (post: 1244403) wrote:As for Christian media being low quality rip offs of main stream products, there is a simple solution. Make high quality media.

Yes, and don't do the "oh, that secular type of media production looks successful - let's make a Christian equivalent!" thing. Do your own thing; don't try to be a shadow.

PostPosted: **Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:45 pm**

Wait a moment...

Stephen Colbert is a believer?

Anyone got a link to that interview? I'd like to read about it...

PostPosted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:56 am**

Sakaki Onsei wrote:Wait a moment...

Stephen Colbert is a believer?

Stephen Colbert is an extremely devout Catholic, which is really awesome. In one episode of the Colbert Report he has a very prominent cross of ashes on his forehead and recites the Nicene Creed.

He's also a catechist. How cool is that? :p

Also for the record, though I'm sure everyone knows this, Jon Stewart is actually Jewish. I think he's mentioned it a few times during the course of the show.

As far as the article itself I don't really have much to say about it I guess? Other than the fact that yeah, Christian entertainment really needs to stop being a poor copy of secular entertainment.

PostPosted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:54 pm**

I wouldn't have known about Colbert...I don't usually watch his show. This is good to know that at least there are some people who are able to keep their faith intact while working in such a cutthroat industry.

PostPosted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:22 pm**

Puguni wrote:You lost me at this part, UC. ]
Sorry, perhaps I should have said a bit more. Let me quote one part of the article:
Whether or not they were the butt of all of Stewart's jokes seemed irrelevant to them. The point was that the high priest of political comedy spent a lot of time thinking about them.

I found it very strange that she draws this conclusion. It strikes me as a very normal thing to appreciate humor poking fun at people who are like you - I think this is a very healthy exercise that helps you look at yourself more objectively and perhaps consider faults you need to change. I mean, there are entire groups of Christians devoted to poking fun at misuses of religion, such as the good people at the Wittenburg Door: http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/

Yet the author seems to suggest that these evangelicals should have been offended by Stewart's jokes, as if they're too uptight to enjoy humor about themselves and reflect on it. That means one of two things:
1) She is uptight and is projecting onto other groups.
2) The evangelicals she's met are actually that uptight.

Sakaki Onsei wrote:Wait a moment...

Stephen Colbert is a believer?

Anyone got a link to that interview? I'd like to read about it...

Yeah, Nate has given you the information so all I can do is try to add links. Colbert has had an interview with NPR where he touches on faith somewhat (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4464017), but the one I found most interesting was in Time Out New York. I can't find a viable link, but here's the relevant part of what he believes in relation to his comedy:
Stephen Colbert wrote:I love my Church, and I'm a Catholic who was raised by intellectuals, who were very devout. I was raised to believe that you could question the Church and still be a Catholic. What is worthy of satire is the misuse of religion for destructive or political gains. That's totally different from the Word, the blood, the body and the Christ. His kingdom is not of this earth.

PostPosted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:26 pm**

Nate wrote:Stephen Colbert is an extremely devout Catholic, which is really awesome. In one episode of the Colbert Report he has a very prominent cross of ashes on his forehead and recites the Nicene Creed.

He's also a catechist. How cool is that? :p

Thats awesome that Colbert is a Christian. I had assumed that Colbert was satire-ing Christians simply because he was following the usual "it is safe to pick on the majority but not the minority because that would be politically incorrect" route. Knowing that he is satire-ing his own kind and not just picking on the big guy makes me appreciate his humor (and criticisms) much more.

Also, I would take anything that he does on the Colbert Report with a grain of salt. Wearing a cross of ashes and reciting the Nicene Creed on a tv show known for its blatant satire does not neccessarily mean that he is a genuine follower of Christ. Either way, UC's quote lays the argument to rest.

PostPosted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:59 pm**

uc pseudonym (post: 1244520) wrote:
Yet the author seems to suggest that these evangelicals should have been offended by Stewart's jokes, as if they're too uptight to enjoy humor about themselves and reflect on it. That means one of two things:
1) She is uptight and is projecting onto other groups.
2) The evangelicals she's met are actually that uptight.

Is it cynical of me to vote for option two here? Because that would be my best guess.

PostPosted: **Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:58 pm**

ich1990 wrote:Also, I would take anything that he does on the Colbert Report with a grain of salt. Wearing a cross of ashes and reciting the Nicene Creed on a tv show known for its blatant satire does not neccessarily mean that he is a genuine follower of Christ.

Right. In this case, I think it was more an example of him actually having the cross still on his forehead and simply making it into a joke like everything else.

Colbert has actually had a variety of Christian guests who represent the religion much better than those he satirizes. Given that these people aren't terribly high profile as television guests (Tony Campolo and N.T. Wright are the ones who come to mind) I think these choices are intentional. The interviews are basically compare/contrast sessions between their well-reasoned beliefs and Colbert's all-too-real satirical character.

mechana2015 wrote:Is it cynical of me to vote for option two here? Because that would be my best guess.

I wonder the same thing, which probably means it is cynical.

PostPosted: **Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:41 pm**

More aptly titled "The dilution of Christianity: How Christians are slowly becoming part of the End-Times culture". In the world, not of it.

PostPosted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:46 am**

lol que

PostPosted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:24 pm**

No Habla Englais!

PostPosted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:37 pm**

Tundrawolf (post: 1245122) wrote:More aptly titled "The dilution of Christianity: How Christians are slowly becoming part of the End-Times culture". In the world, not of it.

Elaborate. Because from what I'm gathering, you're present a really faulty argument here.

PostPosted: **Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:47 pm**

All culture is End Times culture. It's fairly pervasive.

PostPosted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:28 am**

ich1990 (post: 1244403) wrote:As for Christian media being low quality rip offs of main stream products, there is a simple solution. Make high quality media.

Slacktivist has an interesting take on this here:
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2004/06/christian_enter_2.html

PostPosted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:48 am**

Technomancer (post: 1245670) wrote:Slacktivist has an interesting take on this here:
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2004/06/christian_enter_2.html

That. was a great. article. I have got to read more! *click*

PostPosted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:34 am**

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1245671) wrote:That. was a great. article. I have got to read more! *click*

You should check out his stuff on Left Behind

PostPosted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:19 am**

That really was a fantastic article. When the author talked about Rich Mullins, I remembered when I was at Passion a couple of years back and there was one of the guests there (can't remember his name...Chris something?) who led us in repeating the words "Our God reigns" about twenty or thirty times. I was bored and irritated by this. Yes, okay, I get it, our God reigns...now can we please move on to something a little more intellectually stimulating?

PostPosted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:33 am**

It was the lack of stimulation that always bothered me about Christian music. Not just intellgectual, but also emotional and faith stimulation. The lyrics by and large are often flat and bland, as is the music. To date, as I've said the past, the only Christian Band I can actually relate to is Casting Crowns but I can't listen to them casually because their music is extremely convicting for me. It's more than "charge you up with God to get you going" music. It is formational "This is what is wrong with the Church and what we need to do right now to fix it!!" music.

That said, I was kind of a pariah in my Ministries program at school because all the other ministry students were pectoral deep in the "christian" culture and I kind of thought that if I had my choice between the World and this junk I'd rather be in the World - and yes, I realize what I'm saying. I doubt God is honestly so boring that the only conversation you can get out of him is Him repeating, "lol im awsum! I rool j00!" over and over.

PostPosted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:24 pm**

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1245750) wrote:It was the lack of stimulation that always bothered me about Christian music. Not just intellgectual, but also emotional and faith stimulation. The lyrics by and large are often flat and bland, as is the music. To date, as I've said the past, the only Christian Band I can actually relate to is Casting Crowns but I can't listen to them casually because their music is extremely convicting for me. It's more than "charge you up with God to get you going" music. It is formational "This is what is wrong with the Church and what we need to do right now to fix it!!" music.

That said, I was kind of a pariah in my Ministries program at school because all the other ministry students were pectoral deep in the "christian" culture and I kind of thought that if I had my choice between the World and this junk I'd rather be in the World - and yes, I realize what I'm saying.

I agree with you.

Jars of Clay, Derek Webb, and Sanctus Real have all been convicting to me...especially Jars' "Worlds Apart"...and Rich Mullins' "Not as strong as we think we are" (don't remember the title)
I agree that much is lacking in "Christian" entertainment --a lot of it is very cookie-cutter make-you-feel-good-warm-fuzzies kind of stuff --instead of things that make you face reality, face your calling, and stuff that convicts and brings you back to the Cross and back to God again and again.

PostPosted: **Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:49 pm**

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Elaborate. Because from what I'm gathering, you're present a really faulty argument here.

I'd request that this line of discussion not enter the thread, though I do encourage the two of you to discuss things via PM.

Technomancer wrote:You should check out his stuff on Left Behind.

Seconded. Good to know CAA has another Slacktivist reader as well.

CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Slate Magazine covers Christian pop culture

Slate Magazine covers Christian pop culture