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http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1453313/completely_melted_north_pole_a_probability_this_summer/


The north pole may be free of ice this year according to experts. Thats bad because it show definitive signs of global warming. that made me mildly angry, cause we are slowly killing our selves. But wait, theres this lovely tidbit in the article:

If it happens, it raises the prospect of the Arctic nations being able to exploit the valuable oil and mineral deposits below these a bed which have until now been impossible to extract because of the thick sea ice above.

I am disgusted.

Hmm... Interesting.

I find it slightly odd. It seems like people just go back and forth: First everybody was afraid of global cooling, then global warming, then they were afraid of another ice age, and now everybody's afraid of global warming again.... (or something like that)

oh don't you love our world? *smirk* lolz
However, on a serious note, even if environmentalists did take over the government,
we'd have to deal wtih people who think saving animals and plants is more important
than us humans... XDD sorry I couldn't resist....
ahhh *sweat drop* I'm sorry... I just had to say it.
And well how are we supposed to do anything about such atriciousities(sp?)
occuring on our planet? Make a petition? Overthrow the government? (wait...that's not a half bad idea.. ^^)
so yeah I'm saddened by this but hey I can't do much about it...>,<

The thing thats bothering me tho is the fact that they are saying "hey theres no more ice up there!! lets go drill for more oil!!!"

Are people really that stupid? They know that the global warming is caused by the use of fossil fuels, and the ice disappearing is direct evidence of that, and all they want to drill for more oil that's under the ice that just melted for said reason. It's stupid. They're stupid.

not to voice my own opinion *and this is merely MY opinion and not to start a debate* but.....

this only really applies IF you believe what they say about global warming....

*siiigh*

Global warming is not necassarilly caused by Fossil Fuels...

I have talked with my geology professor and a friend of mine who is majoring in science.

This is merely a cyclical cycle of they Earth.

The sun is at a very strong temperarture right now, according to my friend...

and My Geology professor just laughs at the environmentalists out there.

Do you know how much "pollution" (I don't know what else to call the gasses and material that come out ^^;) is outputted by Volcanos? Its WAY more than carbon emissions.

There is a number of reasons why the earth could be warming... the Sun, Methane... LOTS of reasons...

Do your own research...before believing everything your read...look at ALL sides.

I give this thread less than twelve hours before it's locked.

Global warming and oil in the same thread? Something's gonna explode soon, XDD.

Not if we can keep this conversation civil ^^;

Yeah...I don't buy into this, myself. If the Earth is SO HOT that the entire North Pole melts...don't you think we'd all be dead? I just don't see it happening.

LadyRushia wrote:Something's gonna explode soon, XDD.

I hope it's not the potato I left in the microwave! *runs off madly to check*

Nate (post: 1239628) wrote:I hope it's not the potato I left in the microwave! *runs off madly to check*

You better, I once had a burrito catch on fire inside the microwave. It was... slightly... overcooked afterwards. More than likely I could have used it as coal in my grill.

Global warming involves heat. Heat + oil=explosion. If you thought I was talking about a figurative explosion, that might happen.

Even so, I doubt all that ice up there will be gone by this year. It'd have to be like 1000 degrees or something for that to happen.

Run, Nate! Save your potato! Jagainu-kuuuuuun!!

LadyRushia (post: 1239631) wrote:Global warming involves heat. Heat + oil=explosion. If you thought I was talking about a figurative explosion, that might happen.

Even so, I doubt all that ice up there will be gone by this year. It'd have to be like 1000 degrees or something for that to happen.

Run, Nate! Save your potato! Jagainu-kuuuuuun!!

Well if it does, at least now we have a true Northwest Passage.

Here are some articles about the Sun influincing the heat of the Earth:
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/06/army-vs-global.html

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/11.06/BrighteningSuni.html



And Because I want to be fair and Balanced.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=no-sunshine-for-global-wa
Here's one that doesn't agree...

I didn't read this one all the way through, but it might be following the same trend XD
http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html

LadyRushia wrote:Heat + oil=explosion.

SEE? And everyone says I'm crazy for never going outside. My hair and face might explode if I do! Thank you Rushia for proving me right.

Even so, I doubt all that ice up there will be gone by this year. It'd have to be like 1000 degrees or something for that to happen.

MORE LIKE A MILLION DEGREES.

Run, Nate! Save your potato! Jagainu-kuuuuuun!!

It's okay, everybody! My potato is okay! It didn't explode!

Now to check on that popcorn I'm popping on the stove without a lid on it.

[quote="ChristianKitsune (post: 1239617)"]*siiigh*
Do you know how much "pollution" (I don't know what else to call the gasses and material that come out ^^]

Your prof needs to retake Rhetoric. This argument contains a serious fallacy that renders it illegitimate.

The problem is, nobody shut down the volcanos when they started burning fossil fuel. What you have now is artificial emissions + natural emissions. You prof's reasoning is based upon artifical emissions in contrast to natural emissions, which is not the case at issue. The tectonic emissions of which he speaks and the other natural processes have always (at least for the last 50 million years) been balanced by other natural process which returned that carbon back into the Earth. It has never been a one-way street. The difference today is, we are putting carbon into the atmosphere without removing an equal amount. To put it simpler, it isn't the amount of the total that is the problem, it is the amount of the change.

The level of CO2 in the atmosphere, no matter what your politics instruct you to believe, is 100 PPM higher than it was in 1882. In that year, it was 284 PPM. This last November it was 384 PPM, a level never before measured, not in life or in the preserved atmospheric samples found in polar ice.

There is now 35 percent more CO2 in the air than there was in 1882. And there has not been a 35 percent increase in tectonic activity in the intervening time. The only CO2 release mechanism that has been significantly different in the last 125 years than in the previous several hundred centuries is the rate at which fossil fuel is burnt.

Even more significantly, the ice record clearly shows that the CO2 level has not been above 300 ppm for at least five thousand centuries prior to the 20th century. We can't talk about before that, because nobody has figured out a way to measure CO2 levels as accurately going back farther than the ice record extends. But during the clearly recorded period, it generally declined, with occasional small upward excursions, until the 20th century, when it very sharply began a spike upward of a magnitude never before seen in human history.

These are real numbers, not political opinions. They are not 'manipulated' or 'spun'. They are not liberal or conservative. They are raw data.

The majority opinion based upon less accurate means about the time prior to a half-million years ago, is that the C02 level was near a thousand PPM in the Jurassic, dropped dramatically around 50 million years ago (initiating the ice age cycle) Yes you will find a lot of geologists with differing opinions about this, because there is a lot of interpretation required on the available data for this time period.

But, if you meet a scientist who argues the number for less than a half-million years, I would very much like to know first why he thinks the raw data must be thrown out, before I am going to listen to anything else he has to say. Because, unless he has a very good reason for denying evidence that most of the scientific world has tested and agreed is accurate, I would have to suspect he has allowed his politics to over-rule his scientific discipline.

Saj (post: 1239599) wrote:
The north pole may be free of ice this year according to experts. Thats bad because it show definitive signs of global warming. that made me mildly angry, cause we are slowly killing our selves.

Actually, from what I've heard, there's more ice up there this year then last year.....yet, they weren't going this nuts last summer.....

Yeah, this report made me angry too....but not that the caps are melting (which is actually a 50% chance prediction....not clear as mud fact)......No...it was a different type of angry......

Saj wrote: I am disgusted.

So, am I....I am disgusted that we are letting envirmental alarmism take control of our decision making........That is all.....my rant is over......

Danderson wrote:So, am I....I am disgusted that we are letting envirmental alarmism take control of our decision making........

Seriously! I mean just because we have to live on this planet, why should we give a crap that we might be destroying it? I mean it's not like God said to take care of the planet He created for us or anything right?

Polluting: It's Biblical.

A few things:

First, I have previously heard all sorts of talk about "natural climate cycles" and so forth. In order for this criticism to be meaningful, you actually have to identify those cycles. Given that we have climate data from several independent proxies stretching back several hundred thousand years, it's going to be a bit of a stretch to identify a cycle that paleoclimatologists are unaware of.

Second, there are also those who simply state that volcanoes output more CO2 than humans. This is an invalid argument not only for the excellent reason the Eric mentioned, but it is also invalid because it is simply false. The USGS pegs mean annual human emissions as being about two orders of magnitude greater than mean annual volcanic emissions. In any event it has already been shown through stable isotope analysis that the recent marked increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration is of organic origin, which rules volcanoes out of the picture entirely.

Third, and I'll say this because I'm sure someone will bring it up: there was no "global cooling scare" among scientists in the 1970's. It was entirely the invention of TIME magazine (which, by the way is not a scientific journal). Basically, the reporter involved massively exaggerated one quite speculative paper, conflated it with another geological issue, and called it science.

Global warming is a false theory propogated by billionaires who want-guess what-more money.

The sad fact is that people are buying into it.

We've set cold records this year, people. The ice caps have never been thicker. The ice that is supposedly dissapearing is now *gasp* back!

Get over it. It's bunch of nonsense. I'm sorry some people believe God failed to make this world suitable for us when we started using automobiles and realizing that cows fart.

Saj (post: 1239599) wrote:http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1453313/completely_melted_north_pole_a_probability_this_summer/


The north pole may be free of ice this year according to experts. Thats bad because it show definitive signs of global warming. that made me mildly angry, cause we are slowly killing our selves. But wait, theres this lovely tidbit in the article:


I am disgusted.

http://forum.newsarama.com/archive/index.php/t-47173.html

Greenland's ice-cap has thickened slightly in recent years despite wide predictions of a thaw triggered by global warming, a team of scientists said on Thursday.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080225090111AA2SAOs

Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, says the Arctic winter has been so severe the ice has not only recovered, it is actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than at this time last year."

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/02/brrrr-disappearing-arctic-ice-is-back.html

This isn't the only sign of rising sea ice and extra-cold temperatures. The U.S. National Climatic Date Center reported the other day that temperatures in the United States set cold records in January. "The average temperature in January 2008 was 30.5 F. This is -0.3 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average, the 49th coolest January in 114 years."

Tundrawolf (post: 1239673) wrote:We've set cold records this year, people. The ice caps have never been thicker. The ice that is supposedly dissapearing is now *gasp* back!

If only there were some branch of mathematics that would allow us to extract trends out of seemingly random data!

Technomancer wrote:If only there were some branch of mathematics that would allow us to extract trends out of seemingly random data!

lol </thread>

Greenland's Ice Cap is not the North Pole. Sorry.

It is already well established that Northern North America, Greenland and Northern Europe will be Colder in the event of severe global warming, thanks to loss of conveyor heating. In fact, one of the biggest concerns is that Europe will be unable to feed itself because of loss of agriculture.

"Thicker than at this time last year"? What about a hundred years ago? One year variations are meaningless noise on the scales we are speaking of.

None of this is contrary to global warning at all. Sorry.

And what big billionaires are benefitting from 'making up global warming', exactly? Care to name a few names?

Personally I think society has bigger fish to fry than environmental problems. There's a lot more meaningful things to get worked up over besides global warming.

Syreth (post: 1239682) wrote:Personally I think society has bigger fish to fry than environmental problems. There's a lot more meaningful things to get worked up over besides global warming.

It's actually bigger than simply an "average temperature increase", or even a loss of sea ice cover. For example, a significant number of rivers world-wide are fed by meltwater from glaciers and mountain snowpack. By increasing the average temperature you change the mass balance. The end result is no glacier, but also a greatly-reduced year-round river flow. Obviously, this will have significant impacts on agriculture in certain regions. It also seems likely that temperature increases will change perciptation patterns, again something that is likely to affect agriculture.

Syreth (post: 1239682) wrote:Personally I think society has bigger fish to fry than environmental problems. There's a lot more meaningful things to get worked up over besides global warming.

Hmm.... let's see. Energy. Of course that's largely tied to fossil fuel use just like Global Warming.

Food. Tied to Energy, and tied to rapidly shifting environmental conditions in major population regions such as Africa, which is tied to.... Global Warming.

War. Yeah, that's a big one. Of course, that seems nowadays to be largely tied to Energy. And if the Global food supply continues to fall behind demand as it has been doing for many years now, this will probably start inciting more war. History tends to bear that out.

Persecution of minorities and dissidents around the world... that has its own causes, but times of war and famine have a way of bringing out the worst in people. Look for this to increase too.

The Great Commission, the duty of evangelism. Always the most meaningful, but made much more difficult when people around the world are perceiving the Christian countries as the big bullies who are taking the oil and ruining agriculture via global warming and pollution.

The stewardship of our Father's world, taking care of our dominion in His name...

Yeah. Maybe we can find someone else to blame it on when the owner comes back and wants to know why his place is such a mess.

Technomancer wrote:If only there were some branch of mathematics that would allow us to extract trends out of seemingly random data!

/thread

EricTheFred wrote:Yeah. Maybe we can find someone else to blame it on when the owner comes back and wants to know why his place is such a mess.

Quoted for truth.

It's terribly sad that pollution is such a hot spot of debate. It's very simple. We know pollution has a negative effect on the environment around us. Disregarding "global warming" entirely, we still know that pollution is bad, and shouldn't that be enough of a reason to find cleaner energy?

Geh... We took a look at some maps in meteorology this year. Satalite images and what appeared to be going on was that the poles were more shifting in a different direction than actually melting. Also, the Hockey Stick that everyone has been looking at to determine global warming has some serious issues. I'm gonna throw this out here right now. I'm not entirely sure I believe in Global Warming (which is to say I don't necessarily NOT believe in it either) but if it's out there it's more complicated than "we drive our cars too much." There is a lot to consider, not the least of which is deforrestation, yes volcanoes, and YES natural cyclical changes. Chemically speaking there is A LOT of stuff in the atmosphere and for Carbon Dioxide to get to such a level that it is actually causing a noticeable change in atmospheric temperature it has to be critical levels where our health is in danger from CD poisoning.

Are we screwing some things up? Almost certainly. In An Inconvenient Truth Hal Gore cited snow-melt on Mt. Kiliwilimonjonononjonaro* as proof of temperature increase due to Carbon Dioxide levels but a survey taken in the last century showed it was instead deforrestation to blame. Are we doing it? yeah.

As for the Hockey Stick, Dr. Mann (the person who originally came up with it) has been notoriously bad for not letting anyone check his results, which is somewhat suspect for me.

[SIZE="1"]*Know what? I'm not even gonna TRY to spell that. Take that[/SIZE]

Weren't we complaining about high gas prices in another thread? Well, if using fossil fuels causes global warming, shouldn't we be thankful that gas prices are going up? Maybe we should hope that they keep climbing so that we can't afford gasoline anymore. Then the world might be a better place.

The stewardship of our Father's world, taking care of our dominion in His name...

Sorry. I don't mean to imply that we should ignore the environment, but we should recognize the limitations of our actions and determine what the most crucial problems are to focus on within our sphere of influence. The entire atmosphere is not within my sphere of influence, and neither are the countries developing into industrialized nations (who have big pollution problems).

"MAthematics so simple a 5 year old coudl do them". Explain the cololest winter trend-is global warming not really global? Maybe it is localized? I'm sorry people, but your emotions are affecting your ability to reason. The seemingly most intelectual people in this thread are the ones who are falling for the lies the most. Funny, only a sarcastic reply was made to refute what I found. Nor was the colling trend addressed, either.

I'll ya'll what. If you WANT to believe a lie, go ahead. Do not expect me to try to debate you with COLD hard fact. But do NOT influence others based on your own emotions. There is no global warming. Most of what you believe (I am only saying most because I have no heard of any ocnflicting studies about all of it) is a total lie. It is driven by emotion. Emotion and lies.

If you want to drag yourselves into green oblivion go ahead and do so. If it affects me, and it will, expect me to try to impart reason into your minds. Otherwise, enjoy the downward spiral we are just now stepping into that is called "Green Environmentalism".

Ignore the facts.

Get emotional.

See where you end up.

Another thing.

Before nukes and cars we had bloody wars. God designed it that the spilled blood of human beings acted as nutrients and fertilizer for plant life. Amazing!

Isn't it?

Further, if you read the Bible, it would seem that God knows a LOT. Possibly-even, THE FUTURE!

*GASP!*

I do not serve an inferior God.

I do not serve a God who is going to punish us for the effective use of technology. I serve a God who is trying to tell those of us willing, intelligent, enough to listen, that
Global Warming is a farce.

I can see God now "OOPS! I forgot to make the atmosphere impervious to smog! Those pesky humans and their only reasonable means of transportation!"

Yeah, right.

Further, do y'all realize that we are living in the last days? Do y'all read the Bible? Have you read where a fervent heat destroys the universe? Um, that means THIS WORLD.

Let's say global warming is not a farse for the rich to get richer. Let's say it's real.

YOU, as a CHRISTIAN, have OH SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THINGS to worry about. Like, spreading the gospel. We are in the end days!

Congratulations, Johnny, your heavenly reward for defending the earth (Which is scheduled for Godly destruction anyway-and SOON), is....

?

Guess what?

NOTHING!

Only what you do for Christ is going to last!

Not to mention global warming is a lie. Feel like wasting your life and your time any further than this thread?

The choice is yours, and yours alone. Remeber, you WILL be accountable to GOD when you die. That's not a fairy-tale, it's not a lie or an exaggeration.