Video series about Christian persecution in America

[Sheenar]

http://www.silencingchristians.com/Default.aspx

Sorry to make 2 threads so close together, but this is another thing that I would like to hear some ideas/opinions/discussion on. I received an email from the ACLJ about these videos about Christian persecution in America. So I've been watching them (there are currently 3 30-min videos).

Sure, the things that are in the videos really happened, but are they taking them out of proportion? I mean, we had an invocation (in Jesus' name) at my high school graduation and one is included in my college's graduation ceremony.

What about focusing on sharing the Gospel with people --telling them where they can find forgiveness, healing, and restoration --how they can be made right with God --instead of telling them that they're sinners and going to hell.

Ok, little rant here: Why are the only issues the "Christian evangelical right" mention are homosexuality, abortion, and free speech? What about taking care of the "orphan, widow, and alien"? What about making sure children have access to health care and a quality education? I mean, Christ Himself often took care of the physical needs of people before He addressed their spiritual needs. Shouldn't we do the same?:rant:

Alright, I'm done. What do you guys think? Again, civil discussion.

[Radical Dreamer]

Without watching the videos at this very moment, I actually do have an opinion on this. I think that, in a lot of cases, "persecution of Christianity" IS blown out of proportion in the US. Yes, all Christians face persecution, and American Christians are often made fun of, etc. But I think that people forget that we at least have the freedom to worship freely here. In other less-civilized countries, people actually have to practice Christianity in secret, for fear of being tortured or killed. We don't face that here in America, ever.

On your small rant, I agree. Though I have strong opinions on both abortion and homosexuality that I won't delve into here, it's like those are the only two issues facing Christians right now. And yes, they are important issues, but Christians need to be focusing on MORE than just that. Anyways, good point.

[Cognitive Gear]

I agree with the above posts. While I haven't watched the videos yet, I think the following is probably relevant:

Many schools teach courses that actively tear down the Christian worldview. Many people see this as "persecution", as some of these professors take great joy in "enlightening" their students. For which, I can't blame them. If their worldview was true, then it would follow that they should try to inform me.

Perhaps it is just me, but I feel that I was ill equipped by my spiritual leaders in the areas of philosophy and reason. I look back now and wonder why no one ever bothered to show me this approach to Christianity. If it had not been for a run in with "Mere Christianity" I don't think I ever would have realized that faith without reason is often foolishness.

We, as Christians, have the most reasonable and logical world view out there. Yet the average Christian couldn't even convince a skeptic that there is good reason to believe in a god. I find this to be very sad.

If we would step it up, I think that we would find that many of these things are opportunities for real ministry and real evangelism. If we could stop focusing on how people feel about themselves and focused more on reasoning together, I think we would find that we can impact the world in an exceptionally potent manner.

[Technomancer]

http://www.silencingchristians.com/Default.aspx

Sorry to make 2 threads so close together, but this is another thing that I would like to hear some ideas/opinions/discussion on. I received an email from the ACLJ about these videos about Christian persecution in America. So I've been watching them (there are currently 3 30-min videos).

Sure, the things that are in the videos really happened, but are they taking them out of proportion?

Having heard many such stories before, they generally are. Quite often very pertinent facts about the case are also left out in order to deliberately cast the events in the worst light possible. What's left seem to be the sort of beauracratic snafus and petty behaviour that everyone else has to put up with. Not exactly persecution, and calling it such is an insult to those who have faced the real thing.

[Sheenar]

If we would step it up, I think that we would find that many of these things are opportunities for real ministry and real evangelism. If we could stop focusing on how people feel about themselves and focused more on reasoning together, I think we would find that we can impact the world in an exceptionally potent manner.

I agree. We recently had a debate on campus between the Atheist Alliance and Chi Alpha. Everyone was expecting it to get out of hand, but I was told that everything was kept civil and they had some really good discussion.

An audience of students and professors filled Auditorium to capacity Wednesday night as members of the Atheist Alliance and Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship went head-to-head on the hot topic issues of the genesis of man, effects of religion on society and the validity of the Bible.

The two organizations faced off in "The Great 'Truth' Debate" as both parties presented their views on God and posed questions and arguments to the opposing side. The idea for the debate was brought about by A.A. who contacted the different organizations on campus to find a willing participant. Chi Alpha was the alliance's lone response.

"We're an atheist group and we want to get the information out there on what it is to be atheist," A.A. President L. said. "One of the biggest thing that we unify on is our views on different religions and so we wanted to have a forum where we could have a discussion where we can go back and forth."

While Chi Alpha was the only organization to reply to the invitation, some representatives of the fellowship admit they were a bit hesitant to accept.

"At first I was a little bit nervous," Chi Alpha panelist K. said. "I know it's a hot button topic and these things will more often then not go down in flames just because of attitudes. That's one of the big arguments against Christianity is the attitudes of Christians."

Though the actions and attitudes of proclaimed Christians were brought into question, the debate centered around topics the two organizations had agreed upon prior to the debate. Dr. M. moderated the event, allowing each panel time for introductions, rebuttals and closing statements.

"We also banned a lot of subjects between the two of us," L. said. "Both groups agreed not to talk about things such as politics or play the 'who has more famous people' game and abortion."

The debate remained civil with only a small outbreak of disapproval from the crowd during a rebuttal from the A.A. on the topic of medicine and miracles posed by an audience member during the Q&A portion of the event.

"You can claim something is a miracle but without evidence, you have nothing," L. said to the crowd, "Life is real. God is not."

The 'oohs' could be heard outside in the doors of the auditorium where over 150 disappointed students were turned away just an hour before. After the auditorium filled with students and professors, the large crowd was turned away, leaving with complaints of venue and location.

Both organizations agreed the more, the merrier when it comes to spreading their ideas and answering questions for the audience.

"None of us are coming in here with the pretense of thinking that we're actually going to convert our opponents," K. said. "I know these guys in the audience have already made up their mind but there could be someone who is actually seeking answers."

Names/locations were deleted/changed for protection.

[Nate]

I have no idea why I'm on the ACLJ's member list, but I am. They just randomly started sending me emails one day saying I was a member. I've never sent them a single red cent, but they continue to call me a member. I'd unsubscribe to their emails, but it's always fun to see how much they blow things out of proportion and mislead people in the emails.

In short, I don't like the ACLJ at all. I don't believe a single word of anything they say, because I've independently researched the things they say in their emails and they love to blow things out of proportion, or worse, straight up MAKE THINGS UP to get people to send them money.

That said, I'm not even going to bother going to the website. I already know what's there. I admit that there ARE times when the government oversteps its bounds in regards to religion, but most of the time what the ACLJ classifies as "persecution" is clearly the government following the rules of the First Amendment, which states Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion.

[uc pseudonym]

Looking over the summaries of those videos, there is no way I'm going to subject myself to 90 minutes of it. Many good things have been said here that I won't repeat, so the only reason I'm posting is to add what I hope is a new perspective:

I believe that people who rail against separation of church and state are ultimately harmful to both. My spiritual ancestors were persecuted (in the standard martyrdom sense) for promoting exactly that principle. Good Catholic or Protestant churches, mixing political and spiritual loyalties, caused significant harm to one another and to everyone in the Radical Reformation.

The majority of the countries where there was no separation of church and state were in Europe - consider the current state of European Christianity. I don't mean to say one caused the other, but I think you could make a good argument for a correlation. Years of government agendas being promoted by religion can very easily lead to disillusionment with the system and eventually to a "post-church" culture. Note that Dawkins and other atheists who predicted that all developed countries would reach this phase have been proven wrong so far. It's possible that the weakening of the church is a product of its fusion with the state, not of enlightening minds as some would have us believe. If people such as those had their way, I think America would only accelerate the death of its churches.

[LadyRushia]

Without watching the videos, God said there would be persecution, and Christians in the U.S. don't have it bad at all, but we do have a level of persecution here. Granted, we can be very open about our faith unlike Christians in other countries, but people here still mock our faith which I see as a form of persecution.

I agree with your rant, Sheenar. Sometimes, I get the feeling that Christians are more concerned about a few controversial issues rather than taking care of people and spreading the Word. Nobody's going to listen to you if all you do is getting into heated arguments.

[Danderson]

Ditto to what LadyRushia said. Though we in America don't have it "hard" it's still persecution none the less. I think the key thing about this is remembering that Jesus said the world would hate and persecute us because of Him.

[Doubleshadow]

I think their definition of persecution needs some fine-tuning.
I've considered the role of a Christian in politics before, considering the example Jesus set, such as when the Pharisees would ambush him with political questions, and concluded that one does not combat sin with litigation and legalities, because banning this and that does not change a persons heart, and probably only makes a hurting soul suffer more. Instead, you one-on-one do what you can to lead that person to Christ. That is how anything changes for the good. Signed protest sheets may make some headway, but only faith put into practice while turn the culture upside down.