CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Now, because I don't want to start a debate...I'm gonna be vague on the question, but I would like to talk to someone on MSN, or AIM messengers, or PM's on the details. I just want to know how God treats unbelievers...not after they die but...while they are still alive.

Um... I'm not sure if there's much of a debate on this one if you're not talking about after they died. Jesus tells us that He came to save unbelievers, so in my opinion God treats unbelievers like the father in the parable of the prodigal son. If your child rebeled against you and left the family, any good parent would be there waiting for them to come back and accept them back as a full child again worthy of the inheritance (being the kingdom of heaven). The OT also talks about God's wrath and anger against unbelievers, and then we see that those who He was once angry with are reconciled to Him through Jesus. Jesus has already died to save sinners, so think of it as an open door, or as the illustration we have right after He dies of the temple veil being torn giving us access to the Holy of Holies. Since the action has already been done, the salvation accomplished, it's up to the non-believer to choose whether or not they're going to accept that as their salvation.

XD Sorry if that sounded kinda sloppy. I'm not really sure what specificly you're asking about, but feel free to PM me if you wanna talk about it.

I am rather confused about the entire issue here.

well that's why I want to talk via PM or AIM or MSN, so i can explain. Otherwise I don't want to start something here, so I'm purposely being vague.

but fine...whatever..if it causes debate...it causes debate. i apologize.

basically our non believing friends next door here, found two stray kittens in their home. Their daughter had wanted a kitten for herself, and they needed another cat to help with her boyfriend's cats depression. Now, she and her boyfriend aren't christians (they live together and are going to college in oregon)but I know for the longest of time she has wanted a kitten. And to me, I just saw God's love in that...but my parents said that God doesn't go out of His way to fulfill non believers hearts desires

Feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to talk about it.

I just added the story to my second post. and I have talked to some people, so...i guess i'm just taking a risk here. ;-;

Not to sound harsh, but I think your parents are simply wrong. If God did nothing for non-believers, he wouldn't have sent Jesus.

well. that's the thing...their logic for who God is doesn't make sense...and they have devotions every day of reading the Bible and they've done so for years...but...my parents said that the kitten thing was just a "nice coincidence" but that it's not something that God would do for them. and that just made me want to cry...

God loves us all whether we believe in Him or not, but I do not believe God "goes out of His way" to fulfill any heart’s desires.

Case in point: Christ asked that He not have to die on the cross (Mark 14 - specifically verse 36). If God goes out of His way to grant requests for anyone, surely He would have done so for His only begotten son.

This is a stumbling block for a lot of people. I have heard it argued that God does not exist because people who pray for healing still die anyways. If God truly cared about you after all, why wouldn’t He heal you? Worse yet, why do some who vocally oppose Him live long, healthy lives?

It’s a pretty typical human stand to take. After all, if someone says they care about you but they never help you and are never there for you, then how much could they possibly care? So if God allows you to get sick and die, he obviously doesn’t care much about you, right? It is wise to consider everything anyone tells you and compare it against that person’s actions to try to figure out their true intent.

The flaw in this logic is that God is not a human. He is not trying to trick us and He doesn’t need anything from us. He is not some kind of Genie who will give us presents if we worship Him.

He is God. He is always just and He is always good. He doesn’t need us, but He does want us. But He is God. We must make His ways our ways – His wants our wants. If we do this, then He will grant our desires.

Now, as for the kitten. Is the kitten a super natural gift for your heathen neighbor? Out of all the possible answers to this, let me answer with three:

1. The kitten is a gift from God to demonstrate His love and kindness – to plant a seed in her heart about the nature of God that will grow as she loves and cares for the kitten.

2. The kitten is a trick of Satan. He knows that humans naturally search for something outside of themselves to fulfill them – to fill the “God shaped hole” that exists in every human heart so he will use the little ball of fuzz to distract your neighbor from searching for a better and more permanent filling for that hole.

3. Sometimes a kitten is just a kitten. I do not believe every good and bad thing that happens in our lives has deep spiritual significance. God will use everything around us to broadcast His message, but that does not mean everything we happen across is a tool of the supernatural.

What your parents believed about the kitten was incorrect. If it was a coincidence (and I don't believe it was), what explanation can you give as to that it was exactly what your neighbors needed? If it was all by chance, then there would've been plenty of other occurrences that wouldn't have met their needs.

I've seen the Lord work to meet the needs of people who don't believe in Him. He cares for us all, Believers and those who aren't. Even if we fail to see that He was behind it.

thanks guys. those points really helped.

termyt wrote:3. Sometimes a kitten is just a kitten. I do not believe every good and bad thing that happens in our lives has deep spiritual significance. God will use everything around us to broadcast His message, but that does not mean everything we happen across is a tool of the supernatural.

While I agree here that the kitten is not a direct revelation or Godsent angelic kitty (at least from what I've heard of it...), I think it's safe to call it a gift from God because all good things in creation are gifts from God(as in the verse that says all that is good comes from Me). Even non-believers recognize joy, charity, affection, nature, ect. as "good" things, yet because they do not know where "goodness" comes from or who "goodness" is they cannot find satisfaction in those things alone. But I think that we all see little glimpses of God's love in His creation as in the kitten and the idea involved in caring for the kitten as almost a symbolic picture of how God cares for us.

I'm with Termyt on God not granting the desire of anyone's heart, and that the healing done by Jesus was to prove Him as Messiah and glorify God not save humanity from death in this life (if He did why would we need His promise of eternal life?). In the end it's not about ANYONE but God. So I would say that if you want to look at the kitten as being anything, it's possible that it was given to them to show them God - just as Jesus healed people to show them God - and not to "make them happy" or anything like that.

It's very important to always remember that God "so loved the world" and not "so loved believers." What happens when you turn it into the latter is that the "believers" started the action in doing something to merit God's love, rather than the God being love and extending that love to the world for whoever wants to accept it. And as we read in the parable of the two debtors God came to forgive and save everyone but those who need forgiveness the most will be the most thankful. I mean, the basic point of the Gospel is that God not only went "out of His way" to save all sinners (as we were all once non-believers and all separated from God at one time) but sent His Son to die for them. So I'd have to strongly disagree with your parents there.

There ya go that's my 2 cents. I'd cite the verses I wanted but right now Bible Gateway is being evil. >.>;;

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) This clearly demonstrates that God loves us. It is by faith that we receive his gifts, but it is by grace and by the love of God that he gives them.

(and if biblegateway.com is giving trouble, try blueletterbible.com)