Venezuela arms build-up

[Eric]

Here is part of an email update I received from http://www.khouse.org:

"THE DEATH OF A DEMOCRACY

In recent months Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has silenced critics and tightened his grip on the nation. The socialist leader has also begun a massive military buildup and strengthened ties with his like-minded allies in the Middle East.

This week Iran and Venezuela launched construction of a joint petrochemical plant. The 700 million dollar facility is just part of a broader plan to boost cooperation and trade between the two countries. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is expected to sign at least 20 different agreements with Iran this week for similar joint projects.

Chavez is in the midst of a week-long trip to Russia, Belarus and Iran. In Russia and Belarus Chavez plans to discuss the purchase of anti-aircraft weapons and as many as nine submarines - worth more than 2 billion dollars. This announcement comes on the heels of another controversial arms deal - Venezuela recently completed a purchase of 3 billion dollars of military equipment from Russia, including Sukoi fighter planes, military and transport helicopters and a new series of Kalashnikov rifles.

Venezuela is one of the founding members of OPEC and is strongly aligned with the Islamic oil-producing nations of the Middle East. In recent years it has become a hub for terrorism in the Western Hemisphere. Middle Eastern terrorist groups are operating cells in Venezuela, including support cells for organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah. Thousands of Venezuelan identity documents are being distributed to foreigners from Middle Eastern nations, including Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, and Lebanon.

Oil-rich Venezuela was once a wealthy nation and one of South America's oldest democracies. However since Hugo Chavez came to power in 1998, he has transformed Venezuela from a free democracy to an oppressive regime. Chavez claims to be leading Venezuelans in a "Bolivarian Revolution." In order to achieve his goals, he has consolidated power, changed the constitution, and aggressively pushed for socialist reforms.

In the past eight years Hugo Chavez has put a chokehold on Venezuela's freedom of speech. Chavez has passed new laws regulating the media as well as a new penal code that criminalizes virtually any expression to which the government objects. The new laws state that "anyone who offends with his words or in writing or in any other way disrespects the President of the Republic" can be thrown into prison. The laws apply to comments made both publicly and privately. Journalists accused of receiving any type of foreign funding can be thrown into prison for up to 30 years and are not entitled to legal due process. Recently Chavez shut down RCTV, the nation's largest television station, and the only station left that was not government controlled.

In recent months Chavez has begun to nationalize many of Venezuela's key industries. Chavez has already imposed state control over the nation's largest telecommunications firm, electricity companies and the oil industry. The nation's steel industry and other "strategic" industries are expected to meet the same fate. On Tuesday Chavez announced plans to nationalize Venezuela's privately owned hospitals and clinics.

When the Berlin Wall fell, the Soviet Union collapsed, and China pursued broad economic reform, many foresaw the end of the threat once posed by the spread of communism. But while America has focused its attention elsewhere, socialism has taken root in South America.

Related Links:

Chavez goes Shopping For Arms in Moscow - SFG
Chavez's Iranian Visit Wrapped in Blaze of Rhetoric - Taipei Times
Iran and Venezuela Form "Axis of Unity" - Daily Mail
Venezuela May Nationalize Private Hospitals - IHT"

[Technomancer]

You should not bother repeating every bit of alarmist rhetoric that you hear. You especially should not forget (as apparently a good many do) that Venezuela is a sovreign nation and that Chavez is its democratically elected president. Neither its arms purchases, nor its rather limited cooperation with Iran is any sort of danger to the United States.

When the Berlin Wall fell, the Soviet Union collapsed, and China pursued broad economic reform, many foresaw the end of the threat once posed by the spread of communism. But while America has focused its attention elsewhere, socialism has taken root in South America.

You would think that the writer of this piece believes that people like Chavez just appeared like mushrooms after a rain. On the contrary, not only were they democratically elected, but whatever their faults, they are a very real expression of the frustration and anger felt by many in those countries as a result of poverty and grotesque inequalities.

[Shinja]

the only thing about this that bothers me is that fact it is a major drain on the supply of 7.62x39 ammuinition, which means i have to pay extra now when i can get it-_-

[Jaltus-bot]

I expect this will be either long lost or locked soon.

[Eric]

You should not bother repeating every bit of alarmist rhetoric that you ear. You especially should not forget (as apparently a good many do) that Venezuela is a sovreign nation and that Chavez is its democratically elected president. Neither its arms purchases, nor its rather limited cooperation with Iran is any sort of danger to the United States.



You would think that the writer of this piece believes that people like Chavez just appeared, like mushrooms after a rain. On the contrary, not only were they democratically elected, but whatever their faults, they are a very real expression of the frustration and anger felt by many in those countries as a result of poverty and grotesque inequalities.

So basically you're saying everything in there is a lie. I somehow find that hard to believe.

[Eric]

I expect this will be either long lost or locked soon.

And for what reason would this thread be locked? It doesn't violate any sort of rule that I know of. Unless, of course, posting factual news is against the rules.

[K. Ayato]

No, it doesn't. But we don't post news announcements in here just the same. It's like propaganda.

[Eric]

How the heck is it propaganda? It's only making a statement. It's not saying

OMG!@!@1 LET'S GO BOMB VENEZUELA!!!!!

or some crap like that.

And if you think that Chavez is an angel, then you need to do more research on what he's been up to.

[Jaltus-bot]

And for what reason would this thread be locked? It doesn't violate any sort of rule that I know of. Unless, of course, posting factual news is against the rules.

Political discussions can go to debates or go sour really fast. This site is not for debates.

[Technomancer]

So basically you're saying everything in there is a lie. I somehow find that hard to believe.

Perhaps you should re-read my post.

[Eric]

They only maintain the facade of a democracy, just like Russia does.

[Slater]

Hahaha, yeah, the above posts are why we can't talk about this kind of stuff... Forum's too immature to actually think and have logical debates.

[Eric]

Hahaha, yeah, the above posts are why we can't talk about this kind of stuff... Forum's too immature to actually think and have logical debates.

That's what I was thinking as well, and it doesn't surprise me. And I'm not even trying to have a debate....there's nothing to really debate about this topic since it is not about someone's opinion or asking others what theirs is. I'm just trying to let people know what's going on since most people don't really care to pay attention to what happens in the world; they just live in their comfort zone and pretend everything is peaches and cream elsewhere.

[Eric]

Perhaps you should re-read my post.

No need to read it twice. You're acting as if this is no big deal. You see, Chavez is very openly hostile toward the United States, and once he procures these additional weapons (which can definitely be a danger to us, especially the submarines), he will be even more hostile yet because he will have more power to back up his words. And if he chooses to use his newly acquired capabilities, then we'd have yet another war to fight, but this time it would be on a front much closer to our homeland than anything else since World War II. At least it would be more like a traditional war instead of prolonged anti-terrorism efforts, so our military would be able to take care of it much more quickly and effectively.

And if you think they're such a great democracy, I suggest you read this.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/4/25/203939.shtml

Since his election in 1998 Chavez has been aggressively subverting Venezuela's democratic institutions while consolidating his grip on power. Using Cuban dictator Fidel Castro as his role model, Chavez has been employing democratic pretexts, referendums and a strange mixture of fascist and socialist ideology, rhetoric and strategy to try to transform Venezuela into a militarized one-party state. Initially popular, his undemocratic actions have more recently provoked massive opposition.

You can find reports similar to this just about anywhere if you actually look.

[Technomancer]

No need to read it twice. You're acting as if this is no big deal.

Because it ain't. Aside from Chavez having a certain degree of paranoia towards the US, and his own use for domestic propaganda, Chavez' rhetoric doesn't amount to a hell of a lot.

You see, Chavez is very openly hostile toward the United States, and once he procures these additional weapons (which can definitely be a danger to us, especially the submarines), he will be even more hostile yet because he will have more power to back up his words.

His degree of power still doesn't amount to much. Not only are the weapons systems he's purchasing primarily defensive in nature, but they're not going to be able to withstand any concerted attack from the numerically and technologically superior armed forces of the United States. Since Venezuela can't manufacture these systems on their own, they also have no hope of acquiring replacements should hostilities actually break out. In other words, while these weapons might be enough to defend against attacks from neighbouring states, or even provide a mild deterrant to an attack from American forces, they don't even come close to providing the kind of security needed for any kind of aggressive action.

And if he chooses to use his newly acquired capabilities, then we'd have yet another war to fight,

I think it's fair to say that even with such newly acquired weaponse, Venezuela's strategic position pretty much rules out any sort of aggressive posture towards American forces.

[Eric]

Even if he's not an immediate threat to us, he's still a threat to his own country because of all the money he's wasting and how he's destroying the democracy that was in place before he came into power.

Plus, he doesn't need to be able to attack us in order for us to get in a war, like what happened with Iraq, Korea, and Vietnam.

[Mithrandir]

Political discussions can go to debates or go sour really fast. This site is not for debates.

*ding*

I can think of a few rules to close this under, but I'll pick this one:

Politics- Political threads and posts will be closed if posted. Politics has nothing to do with Christianity or anime, our two primary topics, and furthermore only causes opportunity for division within our community. In short, there's simply no positive purpose for them here.

*locked*