CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I saw some footage on an educational program that showed Japanese women throwing themselves and there children over cliffs because they had been told that the Americans would eat them. Did this really happen and was that the reason? I just wondered because I found it extremely interesting, and sad, but have not seen it mentioned any where else.

Somehow, I doubt that, but it's entirely possible.

mai wrote:I saw some footage on an educational program that showed Japanese women throwing themselves and there children over cliffs because they had been told that the Americans would eat them. Did this really happen and was that the reason? I just wondered because I found it extremely interesting, and sad, but have not seen it mentioned any where else.

That happened at Saipan.

It is absolutely true, my friend.

People also killed themselves when they learned that Tojo wasn't divine.

Edit: Oops. It's supposed to be Emperor Hirohito, not Tojo. I mixed up the two.

Really? Well, the Pacific Front of WWII isn't my forte, so I'll withdraw my previous comment. I am aware of the excesses of the Japanese army on the Asian mainland, but I questioned what they might do to their own citizens.

And Tojo. Tried to duck responsibility by gunshot, and missed.

While I wouldn't be surprised if this had happened on a small scale, it wasn't wide spread. Japanese contentment and support of the war is vastly overstated.

I'm not in any way making excuses for the things that happened during WWII, of course, but I've read some primary sources that shed light on a severe amount of war-weariness among the Japanese during the war. It was a highly popularized war amongst the bureaucracy, bolstered by propaganda and censorship, but there was also a fair amount of discontent amongst everyday people. There are accounts of people calling for an end to the war by writing their grievances on voting ballots, or by chalking them anonymously on buildings.

Eh heh. Sorry, bit of a rant. Just saying it's a mistake to confuse the government support of something with the general attitude of the country as a whole.

EDIT:

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:People also killed themselves when they learned that Tojo wasn't divine.

Also, just to point out a small fallacy. While several military officials committed ritual suicide upon Tojo's death, they did not believe he was divine. It was the emperor, Hirohito, who was considered divinity. Tojo was only Prime Minister.

Kokoro Daisuke wrote:Also, just to point out a small fallacy. While several military officials committed ritual suicide upon Tojo's death, they did not believe he was divine. It was the emperor, Hirohito, who was considered divinity. Tojo was only Prime Minister.

Oopsies. I mixed up the two. Yeah, when they realized Hirohito wasn't divine, I believe that Shintoism kind of fell apart for the people.

I'm pretty sure a handful of people were wary of state shinto before the outbreak of World War II. The idea of a divine emperor was NOT the central focus of Shinto until the Meiji period, where the emperor muscled that little detail into the Meiji constitution and instated state shinto.

State shinto =/= traditional shinto, at least in my eyes. The government inserted a lot of propaganda into the former.

So uhm, really long way of saying STATE shinto was dismantled after WWII, traditional shinto was not.

Ah I see. Thank you for the clarification!

(That's twice I got owned, lol)

Kokoro Daisuke wrote:Also, just to point out a small fallacy. While several military officials committed ritual suicide upon Tojo's death, they did not believe he was divine. It was the emperor, Hirohito, who was considered divinity. Tojo was only Prime Minister.

You know, I was thinking "Wait, Tojo wasn't the emperor..."

I also watched a documentary once in which some Japanese soldiers actually complained to their military superiors because they were being told to carry out cruel deeds against the Chinese in mainland China.

Apparently as a result of their complaints, some Japanese soldiers were beaten by their officers.

Ultra Magnus wrote:I also watched a documentary once in which some Japanese soldiers actually complained to their military superiors because they were being told to carry out cruel deeds against the Chinese in mainland China.

Apparently as a result of their complaints, some Japanese soldiers were beaten by their officers.

It's nice to know the other side of the coin sometimes, nyes?

Culturally, the people of my ethnicity (As well as many others) always had a long-time running grudge against the Japanese government. So I suppose it's nice to see how some people thought on the other side.

Of course, there's also this somewhat well-known fact: The first anime ever was a propaganda film in which animal-like characters fought the enemies of the Nazi regime, who were also depicted as animals. It's quite doubtful this film will ever be released stateside.

rocklobster wrote:Of course, there's also this somewhat well-known fact: The first anime ever was a propaganda film in which animal-like characters fought the enemies of the Nazi regime, who were also depicted as animals. It's quite doubtful this film will ever be released stateside.

Humorously enough, Disney did the same type of thing.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Humorously enough, Disney did the same type of thing.

As featured in several 5-star YouTube videos.

Looney Tunes did some great pro-Allied Forces propaganda for WWII. I saw a tape of some of them. One of my favorite ones is when Daffy is fighting some Nazis. Three of the funniest moments are
1. Daffy encountering the infamous messerschmidts. He causes them them to crash and declares "A mess of messerschmidts!"
2. A Nazi soldier sees a skunk and does the infamous salute. When we see that he's actually saluting a skunk, he just shrugs as if to say, "I thought it was him."
3. At the end, it's revealed that Daffy was supposed to send a message to our side. The Nazis actually get him to reveal the message to them: "Hitler is a Stinker." The Nazis see this and reply in unison, "Jah! Everyone knows dat!" and shoot themselves. Daffy turns and says to the audience in his trademark delivery: "Hoo Hoo! We lose more darn Nazis (pronounced "nut-zis") that way!"

rocklobster wrote:3. At the end, it's revealed that Daffy was supposed to send a message to our side. The Nazis actually get him to reveal the message to them: "Hitler is a Stinker." The Nazis see this and reply in unison, "Jah! Everyone knows dat!" and shoot themselves. Daffy turns and says to the audience in his trademark delivery: "Hoo Hoo! We lose more darn Nazis (pronounced "nut-zis") that way!"

I caught the tail end of that one on TV once. It was Mussolini and Tojo who shot themselves, I think.

It was common Japanese propaganda tactic for them to portray the Allied,especially American forces as being overly savage.They did this not only to
scare the natives but also as a means to justify the way they mistreated and even abused Allied POWs during the war.

mitsuki lover wrote:It was common Japanese propaganda tactic for them to portray the Allied,especially American forces as being overly savage.

To an extent, though, the Allied forces did similar things with the Japanese military, frequently portraying them as backwards and subhuman. Usual disclaimer: not taking sides or anything, but I do want people to be aware that there are two sides to the coin.

mitsuki lover wrote:It was common Japanese propaganda tactic for them to portray the Allied,especially American forces as being overly savage.They did this not only to scare the natives but also as a means to justify the way they mistreated and even abused Allied POWs during the war.

This is/was a common tactic of all countries at the time.

Just look at the way the Asian-descendant population of the US was treated during that war. If you look at the propaganda spread throughout the US (the most notable example to me is the covers of the comic books) you will see that the Japanese were portrayed in a manner that is certainly comparable to how Americans were portrayed by the Axis. The Japanese were often portrayed in the same manner that the stereotypical village-idiot characters were. They were also often also surrounded by good looking, tall, white, annoyed-looking American doctors, soldiers, and professors. It's not hard to get the message they were trying to send when looking at such a thing. The American public bought it, and largely approved of the way that their own citizens were being treated.

There are two sides to every coin, and every great hero is a great villain in someone else's eyes. WWII is not a pretty subject.

rocklobster wrote:Of course, there's also this somewhat well-known fact: The first anime ever was a propaganda film in which animal-like characters fought the enemies of the Nazi regime, who were also depicted as animals. It's quite doubtful this film will ever be released stateside.

I saw a North Korean cartoon on YouTube a while ago, featuring cute little animals driving tanks and whatnot.

RedMage wrote:I saw a North Korean cartoon on YouTube a while ago, featuring cute little animals driving tanks and whatnot.

I saw it on YouTube. I wish I could have understood what they were saying.

I have a question myself. Why is it that after WWII, war propaganda cartoons suddenly stopped and never came back? Disney never did it again, or Warner Brothers, or anyone else. Why was that?

Alexander wrote:I saw it on YouTube. I wish I could have understood what they were saying.

I have a question myself. Why is it that after WWII, war propaganda cartoons suddenly stopped and never came back? Disney never did it again, or Warner Brothers, or anyone else. Why was that?

Just after World War Two was about the time they stopped showing cartoons in movie theaters as preludes to feature films, I believe.

I just saw this Korean cartoon you guys were speaking of. It **** me off. It made North Korea look like some rich, prosperous country full of food. That the Army was happy, loving, and for the people (When really, it's for Kim Jong Il) and the enemies were evil, capitalist pricks.

Welcome, Ryan, to the wonderful world of politics.

Fish and Chips wrote:Welcome, Ryan, to the wonderful world of politics.

It's a lovely place, indeed. Grab the Sherry! Let's watch the fireworks, my brothers.

I find many Korean movies have the N/S Korea conflicts to be ultra-sensitive, yet unbiased and very human. Movies like Welcome to Dongmakgol, Joint Security Area, and Taegukgi Hwinalrimyeo makes my heart tingle.

mai wrote:I saw some footage on an educational program that showed Japanese women throwing themselves and there children over cliffs because they had been told that the Americans would eat them. Did this really happen and was that the reason? I just wondered because I found it extremely interesting, and sad, but have not seen it mentioned any where else.

I can say without reservation that this is 100% false – pure propaganda. At no time did any American eat any Japanese women or children. Both sides did use propaganda to demonize the other, though.

Alexander wrote:I have a question myself. Why is it that after WWII, war propaganda cartoons suddenly stopped and never came back? Disney never did it again, or Warner Brothers, or anyone else. Why was that?

Why did war propaganda stop after the war?
Aside from quoting that for the silly way that sounds, I realize you are most likely referring to why they didn’t return for conflicts like Korea and Vietnam. The answer is, they did return. MGM, Warner Brothers and Disney didn’t make a lot of them because their target audience shifted.

The Merry Melodies and Silly Symphonies you are thinking of were produced for and shown in movie theaters to mostly adult audiences. They contain political propaganda (and violence and innuendo) because they were never intended for children. By the time Vietnam rolls around, cartoons are not popular at all. They aren’t being shown in movie theaters, which are declining because of TV, and no one has enough budget to make cartoons for the TV market in large quantities yet.

Propaganda cartoons, however, never left. They are still being made today. Just open up the editorial section of your newspaper.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:It's nice to know the other side of the coin sometimes, nyes?

Culturally, the people of my ethnicity (As well as many others) always had a long-time running grudge against the Japanese government. So I suppose it's nice to see how some people thought on the other side.

Yes, I understand what you mean, as many of my own ethnicity (the Chinese) have always held a grudge against the Japanese government for what they did.

A more complete view of things also reminds the Chinese that a significant number of Japanese people gave their lives in helping the Chinese leader Sun Yat Sen turn China into a democracy (it only lasted two weeks - through no fault of anyone who aided the process though - Sun was assassinated).

Clearly doing right and wrong cross cultures and ethnic groups - and the potential for both good and bad actions applies to all humankind.

termyt wrote:I can say without reservation that this is 100% false – pure propaganda. At no time did any American eat any Japanese women or children. Both sides did use propaganda to demonize the other, though.

Obviously they didn't eat people. But if I recall what my History teacher told us last year, I think some people did fall into the propaganda, and did kill themselves.

Seriously, the history teacher of mine is a crazy old dude. We joke all the time that he knows so much useless facts in history because he was there. From the birth of the Neanderthal, to WWII, all the way to the present. Seriously, he knows everything.

That's not true,I've been around since forever and never met your history teacher!

Seriously though,if you saw the National Geographic Channel special on North Korea they had this one scene that a Dutch film company had shot for an earlier documentary that showed a Korean woman and her son walking to kindegarten together and they were singing this song about the 'poor Americans' and how they wished they could be like 'us' the happy North Koreans,etc.etc.and then another scene from the Dutch film showed the
factory where the mom worked and every morning they had a song to
'The Glorious Leader' aka Kim.

Also if you have been following some of the events in Japan in the news some elements in the Japanese government still refuse to recognize or
apologize to the Korean and other Asian women they held as 'Comfort
Women' during WWII.

Maybe being of Northwestern European descent makes me a bit more
objective since none of my ancestors were caught up in Asian affairs until
WWII.
Of course if you want to talk about the way the ROMANS went around
taking away our liberties...