Advice?

[Momo-P]

Ok guys, I need some help. For about, oh...five years now? Maybe four, my boyfriend and I have been together and we still are truely happy. Sadly some stuff has come up though that's really beginning to bother me.

Where as I'm the type of Christian who's really into things, he's more...I dunno. "Normal" I guess. Or at least what society seems to deem as normal. He's the type of Christian who believes and knows good and bad and stuff, but really doesn't worry about it too much. My dad admits to being that way too when he was young, but eventually growing out of it when he got older. Well...although him getting better when he's older makes me happy I do wish he'd do it now. After all, God will be happier if he starts behaving sooner than later, yanno?

Sadly I just don't know what to do. Time and time again he's told me he believes, but sadly (like most guys this age) he has a weakness for the flesh. Although he's not like "have sex with me or I'm leaving" he obviously doesn't make it a secret he would like that, nor does he make it a secret he would like anything even relating to it. I just wish he would try harder not to give in to temptation. I keep thinking about how those who are truely saved will want to do what is right, and then maybe he's not and I shouldn't be with him, but he says he believes and oh...

I just don't know what to do.

If God told me to leave him, you bet I would in heartbeat. Since he does believe in God though, not to mention is very intent on holding onto me, I do believe I have a very good chance of changing him in time though. In fact, considering how we met and how our relationship has went about, more and more I begin to think God put us together more than just to find a spouse, but also because he knows he needed someone to help him along.

Right now he's told me he'll try and start caring more, but obviously I want him to do it because he wants to and not just to please me. Also I don't know how to really get it across to him without being annoying. I've brought the subject up many a time, but sometimes I think I bring it up too much and make him mad.

So any advice?

And mods, sorry if this is in the wrong place. I would've put it in prayer requests, but since it really is advice, I didn't know if it would fit there. ><; Though prayers are obviously very welcome.

[RedMage]

I would have to caution you against continuing a romantic relationship with the purpose or expectation of "changing" someone. In any Godly relationship, whether a romantic one or simply a friendship, the people involved should build each other up, iron sharpening iron, and become better people through the relationship. And Scripture talks about an unbelieving spouse come to faith through the influence of a believing one.

However, I think those passages pretty clearly refer to couples who were married prior to one spouse becoming a Christian; and Scripture also commands us to not be unequally yoked. There's no room for a "project" relationship in the Bible, I don't think.

I'm sorry if that sounded harsh, I didn't mean for it to. The bottom line, I think, is this. In a previous thread about relationships on this forum, someone (I don't remember who or I would gladly give them credit) said that you aren't supposed to look for a "mere" fellow Christian as a spouse: you're supposed to be looking for someone who is passionately in love with Christ. If one of you is passionately devoted to God and the other isn't, I don't see much chance of a relationship working out.

I'm sorry if that's hard to hear, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. I'll be praying for you.

[Momo-P]

I understand what you're saying, but I just can't see how that's right. If you love someone, you shouldn't just give up on them. Not to mention, wouldn't that be worse? The last thing I want it to say "sorry, but you're not passionate enough about God so I can't love you". I mean, I don't know how he'd react to that. For all I know he could become sour against God because of the whole thing. I don't want that either.

Jesus never gave up on us, I don't see how I can honestly say I love him and then just turn my back on him without even trying. It's not like we're married or anything, so I can leave anytime I want. Since I do want to be with him always though, I at least want to try and get him to become passionate before just calling it quits. If people just called it quits on everybody who said no the first time, there would be a lot of believers who wouldn't have ever converted to begin with.

[RedMage]

I didn't say you should "give up on him." He needs good Christian influences in his life. Unfortunately, it may be very difficult to cut off the romantic aspect of your relationship (if that becomes necessary because of the marked inequality in spiritual maturity between the two of you) and be "just" friends so you can remain a positive influence.

All of us should strive constantly to be a positive influence on the people around us, to be contact points with God. However, when looking for a spouse, we have to look for the person God made to "fit" with us - not find a person and then try to build up and shape and improve them to make them fit on our own.

Speaking as a guy, Momo, I believe that the only way a girl can truly spur change in a guy is by setting a standard, giving him something to live up to. And I don't think you can do that by hanging around accepting and tolerating his un-Godly behavior, even if you hope he'll change or even actively try to influence him to do so. I know it seems cold, like you're telling him, "You're not good enough for me," but I think the only way you can set a standard is to let him know that there's a certain level of spiritual maturity and devotion to the Lord, or at least signs of progress toward that level, that you require in a mate and that as much as you like him as a person, you can't compromise that.

This is only my advice based on personal conviction, my (admittedly limited) study of Scripture, the wisdom of other Christians that's been imparted to me, and the small amount of knowledge I have of your situation from what's in your posts. You can take it or leave it. As I said, I'll pray for you.

[Momo-P]

Well like I said above, I have told him many times how I feel and recently (like a night or so ago) he did say he'll try and care about things more, so it's not like I haven't made my stance on things known. I have. I've even made it clear I will leave if I have to.

But I really don't think I'll ever meet anyone like him. After all I've been through with him, I don't know if I could ever just be friends. I honestly think that'd be impossible for either of us at this point. We agree practically on everything and I seriously can't see any other reason God would've brought me to him. I mean, what's the point of bringing us together for a few years and then make me leave? I guess spiritual maturity, but I don't think God would do something so heart breaking to someone...

[RedMage]

God's ways are not our ways, and he breaks us to build us back up.

I'm afraid I can't really say any more than that tonight. Once again, I'll be praying. Can't continue the discussion right now even if I wanted to, just got some sobering news and I need to go.

[[GMOD]Vedicardi]

If I were you, I would put your religious differences aside, and judge the future of your relationship on character, not religious involvement...

I mean, I know wiccans married to atheists. Guess what they do? Respect each others religious differences, and they're perfectly happy together.

Anyway, that's just me.

[Momo-P]

Ya, but I love God very much so I can't do that.

Anywho, did get some very good news though. Awhile ago I was talking with him about stuff, and found out something I had never known. Apparently of his own free will, every few months or so he actually has been looking through the Bible. Since it's not all the time he never saw a reason to tell me, but I'm still very happy to hear he's doing it at all.

[AsianBlossom]

Whoo...this sounds difficult. I have heard this one piece of advice and, while you don't have to do it if you don't want to, I thought I'd put it here anyways, and hope it helps or gives you some insight. If not, and you think it's useless and has no relevence whatsoever, that's okay, just ignore this then. Anyways, my mom once told me something like this:

If you love someone, set them free.
If they return, you're meant to be.

That's basically it. If anyone else would like to elaborate on that, please do so.

Anyways, I hope you can use this. I'll be praying for you and your boyfriend.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Vedicardi']If I were you, I would put your religious differences aside, and judge the future of your relationship on character, not religious involvement...

I mean, I know wiccans married to atheists. Guess what they do? Respect each others religious differences, and they're perfectly happy together.

Anyway, that's just me.

To be blunt, that's some of the worst advice ever.

[Ashley]

Man, this IS a tough situation.

My best advice to you is to just pray, pray, pray for a month solid. You don't have to stop seeing him, but seriously, set aside some time every day and plead with God to show you the right path. Fast if you have to.

And even if you feel like you get an answer right away, don't take it at face value...keep praying and see if you get the same response several days in a row.

The reason I say this is because God knows the state of your boyfriend's heart, and yours, and where both of you will be in 20 years. He also knows why He brought you into his life, and vice versa. Plus, James tells us that if any of us lacks wisdom, let us ask from our Father above who gives freely to all who seek.

Unfortunately, the others posting here are right: it is vitally important to have a mate with strong spiritual character, or you will be stifled and miserable the rest of your life. But you're right too: Jesus did not give up on people, and breaking it off because he's not passionate enough could have a very negative consequence in his life. That's why you've GOT to pray--God knows what the best answer is for both of you, and I'm 100% positive He will show you what is best.

Don't be afraid of letting go, though. I know it's a scary thought....I love my boyfriend very, very dearly and I cannot imagine life without him. But I have to remind myself often that if God chooses to take Him away it will be in His will and for my own good. Just trust that God will take care of you, in a relationship or not, and it will free your heart to truly enjoy this one whether it is "the one" or not.

[RedMage]

Vedicardi']If I were you, I would put your religious differences aside, and judge the future of your relationship on character, not religious involvement...

I mean, I know wiccans married to atheists. Guess what they do? Respect each others religious differences, and they're perfectly happy together.

Anyway, that's just me.

Yes, let's have Christians choose what course of action to take based on the example of wiccans and atheists in defiance of the express command of the Bible. That seems like a great idea.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but seriously...

[Dante]

Ok, I saw this, was going to post something... but decided not to and went to Wendy's for a bite to eat first... but it still nagged me. So, I'll drop in my two cents that I was able to conclude after a meal.

First off, would I not be alone in suggesting that this perhaps merits a bit more truth and wisdom than we as a forum can really offer? I mean, yeah we're good at answering questions and all, but what I'm trying to say is: Wouldn't this be a better topic discussed between Momo and her parents more than Momo and the kids here at CAA?

You've known him for 4-5 years?! It's not common for someone your age to date someone for that length of time. I presume, as a consquence, that your parents also know him quite well, and have a fairly good opinion of him (Otherwise by now your father would have likely chased him off with a shotgun in hand and your mother close behind with a samurai sword). We only have a slanted view of this situation, given by the text presented to us. However, I think your parents will likely have their own view which they formed in trying to acquire what's in the best interest for both of you (I imagine after five years they care about what happens to him as well). They have an invaluable amount of experience in life, and I'm sure that they would provide far better advice than we would. If you both attend the same church (not necessarily true) and it's a relatively small group (also not necessarily true) you could also seek council from your pastor as well (As he would then also likely know you both to a certain extent, at least how you show up on Sunday or Saturday )

Overall, this is probobly a little embarassing, and I'm glad to hear that you've at least sorta discussed this with your father, and that you wish to follow Christ no matter what. But we've only had a short while to contemplate this topic, while they've (your parents) probobly been expecting/dreading these questions for years now. They still might not believe they know how to get what they know perfectly accross, but they've had a LOT more time to think about your future and how to pose the answers than we have and you owe them a bit of credit as they've probobly devoted their lives to trying to make you as happy as possible in this story called life.

Now (even though I'll probobly be yelled at for it, and just because it's sorta on topic) I'm going to quote an Islamic man who had a really nifty phrase: "You, me and the Devil make three." While probobly a good number of people already know the meaning behind this, it's important to reiterate it, don't date alone as a couple, because this always invites a third unwanted individual. Always keep yourself around lots of other Christian people so that you can make use of the scripture "Whereever one or more gather in my name (Jesus) I will be also" or something like that, AKA, invite Jesus and not Satan to your dates.

Oh... and while you're at it, have your father or his father teach him how to fix/cook basic things around the house... I mean, he should learn how to work a barbecue, fix basic electric outlets, work on basic car equipment, paint ect. or else it will far more costly than necessary for him to survive in life. (You should probobly know these too) And someone needs to learn the l33t skillz of shopping for bargains (Bragging: my mom just acquired $28 worth of laundry detergent the other day for $0.00 through the proper use of coupons and fine print! SHE HAS 1337 Ninja skilz!) Anyways, I've now managed to spend far more time and said far too much. Best of luck, I pray that your parents will have the guidance and wisdom from God (as well as his) that I know they want.

Pascal

[[GMOD]Vedicardi]

Yes, let's have Christians choose what course of action to take based on the example of wiccans and atheists in defiance of the express command of the Bible. That seems like a great idea.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but seriously...

Wow.

[That Dude]

Any healthy relationship is give and take. It sounds like you are the one who's giving and he's the one who's taking. As the man of the relationship he needs to be the leader and do you honestly want to follow someone who will lead you away from Christ? I'm not saying that you have to break up but you do need to confront your boyfriend with his actions and let him know that you don't approve of it and more importantly God doesn't.

God may lead you to break up with him, or He may use this to bring your boyfriend closer to Him...But from what I've read he has no right to stay worldly. If he says he loves God than he owes it to the one who created not only him, but time, the universe, and perfect love.

I know that even though God may have brought you together you got to remember that God some times let's people part ways in order that they may grow. Remember that Christ created everything and that he loves us more than is possibly imaginable...I mean we can't even begin to see the edges of His love. Remember that God always wants the best for you and that if you break up than he'll bring someone along that's much better than the guy you have now. And if you (and a circle of Godly mentors and friends) pray a lot about it and you can honestly say that God wants you two together than things will work out. But remember, no matter what, your boyfriend needs to change.

That's my twenty two cents...Please don't get offended, I honestly want the best for you in this relationship and from my experiences and all I've learned from relationships in the Bible this is what I've come to find. If you want further clarification or have a problem with anything I said send me a PM. Just remember to have Godly peers, mentors, and yourself to pray about it.

Much love
-That Dude.

[EireWolf]

If God told me to leave him, you bet I would in heartbeat.

This statement got me thinking... because I know how I was at your age, and I was a Christian then too. I had a few relationships in high school that probably were not ... no, I can say they were definitely not approved of by God. But I liked the guy, and I wasn't really listening to God about it... although I was fooling myself to think that I was.

My point is -- Are you sure you're really seeking God's answer on this? You love your boyfriend, you've been with him for years, and it would be hard to leave him. Are you absolutely certain that you'd leave him if God told you to? And are you certain that you're really listening for the answer?

I am being very blunt about this because I know how difficult it is to be clear-headed in this situation. But if you think you might want to spend the rest of your life with this guy... Marriage is the most important decision you will make in your life, aside from the decision for Christ.

Since he does believe in God though, not to mention is very intent on holding onto me, I do believe I have a very good chance of changing him in time though.

You will never change him. I think this is one of the biggest and most damaging myths about relationships, and it seems a lot of girls fall prey to it.

Only God can change him. And you must understand that God might need you out of the way to do that. If God tells you to let him go, then don't worry about "what this will do to him spiritually." He is in God's hands, and God knows what needs to happen for him to grow. Maybe he will turn away from God for a time, and then come back a much stronger Christian than before. There is no way for you to know, and no way for you to control the outcome.

So don't worry about your boyfriend. You just go wherever God is leading you.

[ich1990]

My advice: Talk with your parents. They got married. They have experience at the whole relationship thing, and can probably help you out more than we can.

P.S. (This is coming from a 17 year old male who has never had a girlfriend, and has sworn off dating until age 25. So take my advice with that in mind.)

[GracefulRocker]

Of all of the advice I've ever heard on relatioships, the thing I've heard most is this: When a girl says that she thinks she'll change a guy over time, it never works, and is never a good idea to get into/stay in a relatioship based on that, or involving that.

Now, I'm not saying break up with him, but God may be having him do this inorder to tell you to move on, because there is someone better. It is good that you are sticking to your guns, but don't glue yourself down to one guy. Hon', you're 17! You've still got your whole life ahead of you. Explore your options, date, have fun, be happy. Keep in mind that most marriages before the age of 25 end in divorce. God may not want you to be with this boy for forever, and guys don't really grow up until their mid 20s.

I'm sorry if I'm confusing you, or offending you. Please just take into consideration that you are still a kid, like me. Pray as much as possible and listen to hwta God tells your heart! He loves you more than anyone guy ever will!

[Alice]

Sacrificial love is great, and excellent. But you're not married to him. If you were, continuing to love him and pray for him would definitely be the best thing to do. As it is, there are other things to consider, as well. Advice and prayer should certainly be involved.

About changing him: Beauty and the Beast isn't real life. And it's not *your* job to change him, either.

Best of blessing about this. We'll pray for you.

P.S. If some of the advice in this thread comes across as harsh, it certainly isn't meant that way. Everyone who posts here does so because they care. I feel sure we'll each pray for the situation, as well.

[Momo-P]

My point is -- Are you sure you're really seeking God's answer on this? You love your boyfriend, you've been with him for years, and it would be hard to leave him. Are you absolutely certain that you'd leave him if God told you to? And are you certain that you're really listening for the answer?

Considering how much I've cried my eyes out over this, yes. Trust me. I am listening and searching for an answer. Unlike some people who run off their mouths, I do know what things I can and cannot do for the Lord. The idea of losing him makes me go insane, but I still remind myself it'd be for the Lord the whole time those ideas enter my head.

But anywho...

Thanks to everyone for the input. Sadly I still don't know what to do (most people here seem to be saying let go, my parents and grandmother say I should stay with him) so I really have no idea which way God wants me to go. Granted I almost wonder if me questioning it means I'm suppose to leave, but just because people question things doesn't mean they're suppose to let go of them all the time.

Also for everyone commenting on the changing aspect, I think you all misunderstood me. I wouldn't try and mold him, but instead inform him. My mother use to (obviously) hate my father drinking and other acts when they first got together, but because of her influence, my dad stopped. And he even admits it's because of my mother he stopped. Knowing this and all the things my boyfriend and I have been through, it's hard to just step back and say "ah heck with it, I'll let'em go!" If God used my mother to help my father, who says it wouldn't be the same here? Sure I don't know the future and therefore can't just make that assumption, but it also wouldn't be very right of me to assume the worst of him either. The last thing I should do is judge his future on his current state. Especially since I use to be as bad as him and know people can definitely change. ._.

[That Dude]

You said the last thing that you should do is judge his future on his current state. Why? I honestly think that it's a wise thing to do and to let him know what you see his future being if he doesn't get right with God. I know a lot of the advice that you've heard here sounds harsh, and honestly it is. But you've got to realize that sometimes you need to rebreak bones in order for them to heal properly. You may have gone through a lot together but have you prayed about whether you should have gone through some of the stuff you went through? I'm not saying you have to break up but I think that you need to keep on double checking yourself in order to know that you aren't making a decision based on emotions and not clear thinking and a heart longing after God.

[Momo-P]

You said the last thing that you should do is judge his future on his current state. Why? I honestly think that it's a wise thing to do and to let him know what you see his future being if he doesn't get right with God.

Oh no, no, no. Trust me, I have told him where I think he's going if he keeps acting the way he does. What I meant is that I shouldn't just assume "oh, he's acting bad now so in the future he will DEFINITELY act that way!" I have no clue how he will act in the future. In the past I use to be a lot like him, so I especially know people can change over time. So unless I have any real sign I'm not gonna be able to help, I plan to stick by him. I don't know if his parents really say much about God to him and that just motivates me more to at least wanna stick by his side and inform him of what he's doing that's wrong. If I leave, sadness aside, I don't know if he will really know some of this stuff.

And as for my emotions blinding my good judgement, I'll be honest, to a point I do believe it is. Then again though, who's wouldn't over this type of situation? Considering how I keep praying over it and have even told him I can't marry someone like that, it's not like I'm letting them get in the way too much. Unless anyone wants to say that last one would be an easy task, but I think most people can agree that telling that to anyone you love would be one of the hardest things ever.

[Warrior4Christ]

1. Keep praying.
2. Keep encouraging him.
3. Keep being aware of where you are/his is spiritually.
4. Wait. Give it time.

That's what I suggest you do. At this stage, I don't think breaking up with him would be necessary/advisable. And even if you do in the future, I think it would be advisable to only bring the relationship back to a friendship level, and continue encouraging him as a friend. But as always, keep praying for guidance.

You seem to be doing well on confronting him with these issues, and having the right motives and being spiritually aware. I know it's possible to have friends influence change in someone (good or bad). Sometimes it works; sometimes not.

[termyt]

I'm no expert in the love/relationship arena.

That said, I believe you still have plenty of time to wait to see if what this guy is going to do - what kind of man he is going to be.

My advice, don't try to change him. When the goal is to change someone, it will almost certainly fail.

Instead, focus on who you want yourself to be. More specifically, who God wants you to be. Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, seeing what God sees - the value He places - in the lives of the people you encounter each day. Loving those who are hard to love and standing up for what is just and true. (And studying just what justice and truth are.)

In the end, your BF will either become excited about what is happening in your life or he will harden his heart. Either way, the choice will become more obvious.

[That Dude]

Oh no, no, no. Trust me, I have told him where I think he's going if he keeps acting the way he does. What I meant is that I shouldn't just assume "oh, he's acting bad now so in the future he will DEFINITELY act that way!" I have no clue how he will act in the future.

Ok...I just wasn't sure what you meant by that originally. I agree with you there. It's good to see that you are seeking God's wisdom in this and I know that you'll do what God wants you to do. Just remember to focus on your relationship with God above everything else. Keep on rocking Momo!