CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Hey everyone! I wasn't really sure where to post this because it has to do with TV, Prayer requests, and just general knowledge, I put it here..

I am sorry if this becomes controversial but I feel it's something that every Christian in this forum needs to know about.

Starting on Sunday December 17, The National Geographic Channel will air a special entitled "The Secret Lives of Jesus." In this "documentary" they will discuss areas that state that Jesus had a wife, and that he wasn't even cruxified. X.x They say they have uncovered some documents or something...

anyways... I am really worried about what this will do to non christians and maybe new baby Christians. It's a scary thing because it's the National Geographic channel, it's not like it's Sci-Fi or anything...people could actually believe this documentary.

I would also love to know if anyone has any information about whereyou think they are getting these facts from? It's a bit disturbing (not enough for me to question my faith in Christ because I have seen him work in awesome ways.)

*sigh* I guess I just want to know where in the world NGC is getting these so called "Facts"

Anyways, major stuff going on. Let's Pray that this show doesn't affect anyone negatively..^^;

Thanks a bunch everyone!

Could it be possible that this is a documentary on the finding of the Gospel of Judas (which had info. in it like that, if I remember correctly)? Which was, if I remember correctly, written by a gnostic group (a cult) some hundreds of years after most of the Bible was written. Anyways, I agree with you about worrying for the non-Christians and young Christians who have just been born again, or Christians struggling with their faith. But I've found that most of the time (with one or two exceptions), National Geographic's programs on the Bible and its contents are usually theologically off, anyways.

Ok! I have found a clip and you are correct, RD, they seem to have taken from some of the Gospel of Thomas as well..

I have seen a thing like this before...maybe it's not a new show but still...NGC is promoting it like it will actually change our views?

I am really relieved that these books can be shot down so easily. ^_^ makes it lots easier to defend when people say "I saw that documentary and Jesus was an evil child, and he really didn't die on the Cross..XP "

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/video/index.html?bcpid=192889067&bctid=348411125

here is the lies--er I mean clip I found on the website. It depicts Jesus as a child and acting like a tyrant.. *rollseyes*

*Not trying to start a debate here*

Hmmm, wheren't it told that bad things in this world would only get more and more extreme? Now people attacking the faith of others and trying to isolate potential joiners of the faith is not uncommon today nor was it uncommon then. Ceartain documents made by ceartain people attacking the faith in that time may not be of fullworthy value and false. Still don't get dishearted by these things, for what is their doubt compared to our faith? Seek out the lord with all your heart if you want to find him, trying to disprove him will only take you a longer way from him.

I say Jesus is the king of kings. The one and true son of God. Sinless and victorius.

When I first saw the commercial for it, I was sickened. I never ever watch theological type shows on Science channels, because, unfortunately, what the world considers "science" today, is diametrically opposed to theology. So they've got no idea what they are talking about, basically.
I had a biology teacher once who told me that when scientists don't know how to explain something, they make things up. Basically, for the missing parts of evolution and such, they just make stuff up to fill in the gaps. So then I started thinking about the faith required to believe these scientists. That just because they state "we've found proof", we take their word for it. I've gotten to a point where I'm not sure if I believe some Hubble photos, for the mere fact that computers can paint the same pictures without any of it being real. (Mind you, if the photos are real, all they do is point more glory to God's design in creation, and his creativity in painting the sky, anyway. But in no way do I believe such things to be proof of our "accidental" beginnings.)
Point being, for me, I wouldn't believe a word these people say about Jesus. I know that Satan is behind any defamation that occurs anyway. However, you are right about being concerned for the weaker-minded or less knowledgeable, and those who believe everything the media tells them. It is unfortunate that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. But if they will be swayed that easily by such a program, then they were not fertile ground to begin with. Not to say any person should be written off. All I'm saying is that we must pray about it. Pray that those who want to believe, and who already believe, will not be swayed by such silly arguments. Pray for God to give them discernment. Worrying does nothing. Praying can do anything.
Sometimes I give Satan too much credit and forget that he is merely an angel. It's not like he's the exact equal of God in power and ability or such (as he is often portrayed). He is simply a strong-willed angel. God is all-powerful and can easily overcome these type things.
We live in very dangerous times, with many deluding influences around us. We must work hard to reach them one at a time, and show them through our own lives, that programs like these, are nothing but lies meant to pull them further from the truth.

dyzzispell wrote:unfortunately, what the world considers "science" today, is diametrically opposed to theology.

That depends on how you define science and theology. As a Christian going into a field that is heavy in science (nuclear engineering), I find no qualms with most scientific theories. Are they perfect? Well, no, but then again neither are a lot of the doctrines I see in many Christian denominations, boiling down to "Well this is how I feel." At the very least, science requires at least some observable proof to its theories.

Does that make science perfect? No. Does that make religion invalid? No. But science and faith are not (and should not) be enemies. It really hurts me as a man of logic to see so many Christians bash "science," and is part of the reason I feel rejected by the body of Christ. I know you didn't mean it like that, but please be more careful with your wording in the future.

ChristianRonin wrote:anyways... I am really worried about what this will do to non christians and maybe new baby Christians. It's a scary thing because it's the National Geographic channel, it's not like it's Sci-Fi or anything...people could actually believe this documentary.

It could be very interesting if it's done right. The stories and beliefs of the earliest Christian and pseudo-Christan sects are worth learning about in order to understand the context in which modern Christianity emerged. Good scholarship on this subject should not be shunned merely because the documents involved contradict one's own beliefs. Unfortunately, I have a prior commitment this day, and will likely be unable to watch it.

I had a biology teacher once who told me that when scientists don't know how to explain something, they make things up.

Simply put, your biology teacher is quite mistaken about how science is practiced.

Kae, please stick to the topic at hand and not go off in a different direction. This isn't about that...okay? It's about something greater than that. Sorry if that offend you, but I want to avoid all debates as long as possible.

When I first saw the commercial for it, I was sickened. I never ever watch theological type shows on Science channels, because, unfortunately, what the world considers "science" today, is diametrically opposed to theology. So they've got no idea what they are talking about, basically.
I had a biology teacher once who told me that when scientists don't know how to explain something, they make things up. Basically, for the missing parts of evolution and such, they just make stuff up to fill in the gaps. So then I started thinking about the faith required to believe these scientists. That just because they state "we've found proof", we take their word for it. I've gotten to a point where I'm not sure if I believe some Hubble photos, for the mere fact that computers can paint the same pictures without any of it being real. (Mind you, if the photos are real, all they do is point more glory to God's design in creation, and his creativity in painting the sky, anyway. But in no way do I believe such things to be proof of our "accidental" beginnings.)
Point being, for me, I wouldn't believe a word these people say about Jesus. I know that Satan is behind any defamation that occurs anyway. However, you are right about being concerned for the weaker-minded or less knowledgeable, and those who believe everything the media tells them. It is unfortunate that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. But if they will be swayed that easily by such a program, then they were not fertile ground to begin with. Not to say any person should be written off. All I'm saying is that we must pray about it. Pray that those who want to believe, and who already believe, will not be swayed by such silly arguments. Pray for God to give them discernment. Worrying does nothing. Praying can do anything.
Sometimes I give Satan too much credit and forget that he is merely an angel. It's not like he's the exact equal of God in power and ability or such (as he is often portrayed). He is simply a strong-willed angel. God is all-powerful and can easily overcome these type things.
We live in very dangerous times, with many deluding influences around us. We must work hard to reach them one at a time, and show them through our own lives, that programs like these, are nothing but lies meant to pull them further from the truth.

thanks a bunch for this statement! I hope I will make it clear that I am not worried for MY faith. Because I know what is real and not real. I love how you pointed out that Satan isn't as strong as God. that is amazing. To think that they aren't even equals. God will prevail over this I just know it ^^.

That being said, I know that Satan is probably pretty happy about this program. I also agree with you that worrying does nothing by praying can do anything. Thanks so much for that! ^_^

Hmmm, wheren't it told that bad things in this world would only get more and more extreme? Now people attacking the faith of others and trying to isolate potential joiners of the faith is not uncommon today nor was it uncommon then. Ceartain documents made by ceartain people attacking the faith in that time may not be of fullworthy value and false. Still don't get dishearted by these things, for what is their doubt compared to our faith? Seek out the lord with all your heart if you want to find him, trying to disprove him will only take you a longer way from him.

I say Jesus is the king of kings. The one and true son of God. Sinless and victorius.

Amen! ^^ I agree whole heartedly!

It could be very interesting if it's done right. The stories and beliefs of the earliest Christian and pseudo-Christan sects are worth learning about in order to understand the context in which modern Christianity emerged. Good scholarship on this subject should not be shunned merely because the documents involved contradict one's own beliefs. Unfortunately, I have a prior commitment this day, and will likely be unable to watch it.

I apologize for disagreeing with you Techromancer. But I agree with Radical dream, these so called "Documents" have been proven very very historically inaccurate. The were written nearly 300 years AFTER Jesus' death and therefore in my opinion really hold no water. Whereas the Canon New Testament was written very shortly after his death. I think the Latest book written was only a mere 70 years, but during this time, other books were written. And the awesome thing is, that back then, everyone was taught to memorize memorize and memorize so it wasn't hard for them to remember something. ^^;

Again, guys let's stick to the topic. No bashing other people's teachers and stuff... It was her teacher's opinion.

I apologize for disagreeing with you Techromancer. But I agree with Radical dream, these so called "Documents" have been proven very very historically inaccurate. The were written nearly 300 years AFTER Jesus' death and therefore in my opinion really hold no water. Whereas the Canon New Testament was written very shortly after his death. I think the Latest book written was only a mere 70 years, but during this time, other books were written. And the awesome thing is, that back then, everyone was taught to memorize memorize and memorize so it wasn't hard for them to remember something. ^^;

It's not the "accuracy" of these documents that I was refering to. What interests me are the beliefs of these groups and how they fit into the evolution of Christianity and the milieu in which it developed.

What a coincidence. I was just reading about these documents over at U.S. News. It's interesting how these matters can cause so much controversy, even after all of this time.

After all, they are hardly new. As anyone with a cursory knowledge of the subject will attest, the Gnostic gospels have been in our possession for decades and within our knowledge for centuries. Saying that they rewrite Christianity is a gross misunderstanding. But, that's not to say they can't teach us anything about the early church or what we believe today.

Sadly, I do not think that is what most people are getting out of them. National Geographic isn't the only one making such sensational and misleading headlines. The historical merit of these documents is being pushed aside by a culture looking for reasons to rebel against the church.

National Geographic isn't what it used to be, or at least their documentaries. Ever since they got their own channel (as opposed to producing a few high quality documentaries a year) the quality has dipped incredibly to the point that it's no better than any other cheap television documentary. And this one seems just another sensationalist attempt to actually get more viewers.

Well it's only their series on the Bible that is questionable.Their other series are pretty good.You should have seen In The Womb:Animals,which was a fascinating
look at the way dogs,elephants and dolphins are concieved and grow in the womb.
They're doing another one called In The Womb:Mulitplies that appears to focus on
humans next month.This should help to aid the pro-life movement.
Getting back on topic:From the first time I saw the commercial for Secret Lives Of Jesus I was pretty much certain it was going to be another Gnostic puff piece.
NGC seems to have a thing for the Gnostics lately.Well it is interesting to learn about Gnostics and other early Christian sects it should also be remembered that
they were always considered heretical,even as early as the NT times.A lot of what
Paul and the other Apostles wrote about was against Gnostic belief.Gnosticism can be said to be the oldest Christian heresy.
btw:I am aware that Gnosticism existed well before Christianity but I am referring to the Christian variety.

The gnostic texts are fairly interesting, though I wouldn't hold them credible in any way. I doubt NG is attempting to convince people it's real, but simply what it's about.

There seems to have been an renessiance in interest in these texts ever since
The Da Vinci Code.
btw:The Cathars that the Catholic church declared a crusade against in the Middle
Ages were Gnostics.

Cap'n Nick wrote:What a coincidence. I was just reading about these documents over at U.S. News. It's interesting how these matters can cause so much controversy, even after all of this time.

After all, they are hardly new. As anyone with a cursory knowledge of the subject will attest, the Gnostic gospels have been in our possession for decades and within our knowledge for centuries. Saying that they rewrite Christianity is a gross misunderstanding. But, that's not to say they can't teach us anything about the early church or what we believe today.

Sadly, I do not think that is what most people are getting out of them. National Geographic isn't the only one making such sensational and misleading headlines. The historical merit of these documents is being pushed aside by a culture looking for reasons to rebel against the church.

And that is why NGC is silly....using generally UNaccepted documents, and using them as the premise for their documentary. *sigh*

Well...it depends on how the documentary is run as to how silly referencing the documents is. Don't get me wrong, I would be as happy as anyone here if the Gnostic heresy weren't getting so much free press, the Church has gone to great pains to refute these doctrines, and it is disheartening when they are treated as valid once again. However, in the same light, these are historical documents, just as the ancient religious myths are. In his own day, Saint Augustine had to deal with the pagan Roman and Greek religions a great deal, refuting their claims and arguing with them when they claimed Christians were the cause of the fall of Rome, yet today we have no qualms about teaching these myths in our school because, for the majority of people, they have no religious meaning or power. Though the people at National Geographic are, quite obviously, trying to jump on the "DaVinci Code" bandwagon, we have to remember that these documents are a part of history, just as the Upanishads, the Qua'ran, the Confucian Analects, the Greek and Roman myths, and other religious scriptures are. Every one of these documents presents a world view that contradicts Christianity, but they are also valid documents historically, even as we as Christians deny their true validity. The Gnostic heresies are the same, and while it would be historically incorrect and angering if the special claims that these scriptures somehow represent the true Faith (they claimed to be, but do not in any way represent what the early church modern Christians descended from believed), we have to remember that the Gnostics were a long-running group of varied heresies, and as such did have their mark on history.

Well all things works for the Good of His people. So maybe this will be an way for us to evangelizing other about the Truth of Jesus Christ.

well whether they are "accepted" or not. there's nothing wrong with listening to another persons point of view on a matter. of course, changing a faith after watching a documentary is riddiculous. but by learning what others believe, we can more honestly say whether or not you believe in what they do. I myself have studied Hinduism, Buddhism, Judiaism, Christianity, and Islam. and I am better off for it. now when someone asks what religion I am part of I can say that I am a Christian who belongs to no particular sect. and when they ask why, I can tell them that it is the one that "feels" right for me. And when they try to suck me into their beliefs, I can tell them that I've already studied their church and don't care for it. anyway, all I'm saying is that I will be watching this show purely for a search for knowledge. I will be researching what they say to determine if its really true and will take it with a grain of salt, but I'll still watch it with an open mind.

EDIT: by the way, (not to bash religions here but...) when I studied islam, lets just say I had some serious issues with it, (even with Fundamentalists and terrorists aside) how it started and its general beliefs. I don't know, even with an open mind, something about it made it feel more like a cult to me than the other world religions did. but thats just my oppinion. not trying to start any controversy here.

So did anyone actually watch the special yesterday and if so what you think about it?I see they also did one on Mary Magdalene as well.
Actually unless the Romans were sloppy with their bookkeeping one would think that there would have to have been some record of Mary Magdalene's arrival in
southern Gaul if that part of the story were true.I mean it would be inevitable that sooner or later she and her escort would have a run in with the Roman beuracracy
if they had traveled from Palestine to Gaul.It was too well organized.

Heh, thanks to this type of series, I'll most likely start questioning all their other documentaries. "I wonder whether they ~really~ filmed that over there? It must be camera tricks! Frauds!"

I'll watch it out of curiosity but I'll start taking NGC with more grain of salt than usual (in other words, I'll take them less seriously as a whole).

Well we are talking over 2,000 years of Christian theology for one thing.

My personal belief is that the Gospels were written not decades but mere years
after the events happened.Certainly when Luke wrote his many of the witnesses
were still alive and there were ample first hand accounts written down for him to
borrow and read.
One must remember that the oldest copies of the Gospels we have are still
generations from the originals,though older than anything that the Gnostics wrote.

I also note that when Paul was penning his epistles to the Corinthians that there still were plenty of eye witnesses to the Resurrection(he says 500)alive.

Now as to my point about Mary Magdalene in Gaul,certainly she and the other Jews
would stand out in any population of Celts.Which would make it so incredibly
stupid if the Romans HADN't noticed their presence there,if they HAD gone there.
However there is no real proof that Mary Magdalene ever left Palestine.

mitsuki lover wrote:Now as to my point about Mary Magdalene in Gaul,certainly she and the other Jews
would stand out in any population of Celts.Which would make it so incredibly
stupid if the Romans HADN't noticed their presence there,if they HAD gone there.

Depending on where in Gaul she was, it might not have been that remarkable. Remember that the port of Masilia (Marseilles) was a Greek colony long before the Romans arrived, and was a major centre of European and Mediterranean trade. One would expect many different nationalities to passing through there, so the arrival of a fairly unimporatant Levantine woman would likely not have been worth mentioning by the Roman officials if they noticed at all. Of course, it's not like the harbourmaster's records have survived anyways.

Though they probably would have such things as passenger lists,etc.
My main objection to the story though is that there would have been no real reason for Mary Magdalene to flee Palestine as far as Gaul.Certainly the Gospels don't treat her in any special way from the rest of the women mentioned.I am not saying that none of the Disciples could have gone to Gaul and points west,I'm just saying that the evidence certainly doesn't point to that conclusion.
And other than the possibility that Paul did go to Spain(Iberia,I think it would have been called in those days)we know little else.
btw:The legend of Joseph of Arimathea bringing the Grail to England is solely based on rumor that he was a tin merchant and had dealings in Cornwall.

There is no physical evidence that Mary when to Gaul, altothugh there's no evidence against the suggestion either. The same goes for James' travel to Galicia or Thomas' to India, or any number of deeds of the early Christians. For someone who did wish to preach the Gospel, Masilia would not have been a bad starting point. Admittedly though, the Eastern Orthodox tradition of her having retired to Ephesus is more likely.

ok, I watched it and most of it was crap. seriously, Jesus didn't kill...period. but the Idea of Judas possibly doing what he did out of faith instead of greed is at least plausible. I think that if Jesus Married, then it would have appeared in other texts. thats kind of something that would be hard to overlook. but the fact that Mary Magdeline (spelling?) was not a prostitute is confirmed and the idea of her being close to Jesus and even an Apostle is Plausible. why wouldn't Jesus have told her things privately? he did so with other Apostiles. and I've seen other documentaries that have stated that Paul was very much against women in religion. I also watched some of the other Documentaries the NGC showed that day. one was focused of Revelation. did anyone know that for John to have written it, he would have to be over a hundred years old? hardly anyone lived that long, or even close to, in those days. just something to think about. not trying to start anything TOO theological or controversial, just reporting my thoughts on what I saw.

Hakaii wrote:but the Idea of Judas possibly doing what he did out of faith instead of greed is at least plausible.

I didn't get to watch it... What did they say to suggest that Judas was acting in faith?

and I've seen other documentaries that have stated that Paul was very much against women in religion.

I wrote a paper about this, and my research suggests that at least one woman (Priscilla) ministered alongside Paul and with his blessings. Some of the things Paul wrote about women in ministry must be taken in context. If you want more info about this, PM me, as I don't want to take this thread in that direction (or have a theological debate).

EireWolf wrote:I didn't get to watch it... What did they say to suggest that Judas was acting in faith?

According to the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus pulled Thomas aside and told him secrets. One of them was that Jesus' divine spirit was "trapped" by the human flesh and needed to be killed to be freed. I think the words are along the lines of "Release me from this body that clothes me" or something like that.

Ah. Thanks, Nate.

Hakaii... I didn't get a chance to see any of those documentaries.. however, I do know that all the disciples were pretty young when Jesus took them in. Many of them were younger than 20...so it's not too far fetched to think that Revelations was written around 40 years or so after Jesus' death, that would make John maybe 60-70 years old...not 100. ^^;

(some argue that Revelations was written in AD 68 others say it was like 96 AD.. I tend to lean toward the AD 68)

Plus back then people were taught to memorize things. It was basically ingrained into their heads. So it's not that hard to think that this book was written correctly, in fact some of the prophesies are already coming true. (But we probably shouldn't debate about that.)

Just goes to show kiddies we shouldn't listen to everything we see on the Idiot Box! ^_^