CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

He committed suicide over 61 years ago and his Thousand Year Reich only lasted a decade,so why is Hitler still so important to us today?I ask this question after noticing that History Channel is once again hosting several
shows on Hitler today,including Hitler's Family.
With most tyrants and dictators once they're dead and gone we really don't care much any more.Some how Adolf Hitler seems a bit different in that department.So I ask again,why does he still matter to us?

Because those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. You might as well ask why do we learn about any history at all? Why is the American revolution important? Why did the Protestant Reformation matter? It matters because it's history.

Same reason why Stalin, Hideki Tojo, and Kim Il Sun still matter

mitsuki lover wrote:He committed suicide over 61 years ago and his Thousand Year Reich only lasted a decade,so why is Hitler still so important to us today?I ask this question after noticing that History Channel is once again hosting several
shows on Hitler today,including Hitler's Family.
With most tyrants and dictators once they're dead and gone we really don't care much any more.Some how Adolf Hitler seems a bit different in that department.So I ask again,why does he still matter to us?

Hitler matters because of the effects of WWII have long outlasted the war itself. The example set by the Nazi state is one that is also worth remembering. However, he's on television more than other tyrants for the straightforward fact that the events were not only relatively recent, but were also on film.

Well, he most asking why they don't talk about other tyrants and dictators is the main point on what he is getting at.

I think alot of it is because, people really want to know what Hilter is like. Another is, he make a mark on the world, not in a good way, but he did.

Its all history and we do need to learn it. I wish there was more history about other things that have been forgotting.


Wingzero22

DARNIT KAE you stole my quote!!!

yeah if we don't learn from our past mistakes... they will probably happy again.. (man the fire out of my statement is gone now..*pouts*

I would say to forget Hitler and his atrocities is to tell the families of 6 million Jews--not to mention other "hated" groups: "your suffering is not worth remembering."

Ashley wrote:I would say to forget Hitler and his atrocities is to tell the families of 6 million Jews--not to mention other "hated" groups: "your suffering is not worth remembering."

Exactly. And like Nate said, if we don't learn from history, we're doomed to repeat it. "It doesn't matter, it's in the past" is a false statement. Truth is, it does matter, because if we don't learn from our pasts, we'll continue to make those same mistakes in the future.

going back to what kae said about those who forget history being doomed to repeat it, look at how many times someone did try to destroy the hebrew people, surely this should be a clue to us that "hey, maybe it's time we pay attention to what those who lived in the past have to tell us"

I have a feeling that Hitler is not alone nor unique in his wrongdoings--there are, perhaps others in history who about as bad or worse than he.

My guess on why people still fuss over Hitler:

1. There are still alive those who remember what he did.
2. Although Stalin and Mao killed more people, they did not start any world wars.
3. Too many WWII movies.

I would say to forget Hitler and his atrocities is to tell the families of 6 million Jews--not to mention other "hated" groups: "your suffering is not worth remembering."

Granted, but we do that to almost every other group to which atrocities have been done. Instead, I think its' because a lot of old people watch the history channel and like it when the television gives them a pat on the back every single day of the week about their position in world war 2. Notice that world war 2 has generally been the primary focus of the history channel, despite the fact that it is such a small segment in retrospect of history. Anybody notice them going through Pre-Edo Era Japan? What about the history of England? Lithuanian history anyone? With history being so very very broad (Accross time and cultures), I think that in the end it all has to come down to them giving old people pats on the backs... which is probobly a large portion of their viewing audience.

Some may criticize this and say they were indeed worthy of such things, indeed. But as much as they are reffered to as the greatest generation, does that mean those who fought in WW1, WW2, the Franco-Prussian War or the forests of ancient Germany died any less terrible deaths? Or is World War 2 the only war that REALLY mattered in history? What about Charles the Hammer who saved all of Europe from being conquered in the Islamic expansion? Let's not fool ourselves, there are ALOT of important things other than simply Hitler and WW2 within history. In this respect I was kind of disgruntled that the History Channel seemed so foccussed on the subject without giving fair reign to the others... I wonder if they will vanish from the air waves when the WW2 ventrans all pass away?

-End Rant
Pascal

In addition to all the other excellent points of this topic which have been made, I believe much of why it is important for Hitler's reign of terror to be in the forefront of our minds it to combat the mindset that is being forced upon us. So many in our society who espouse the glories of a marxist society and the inherent goodness of man need to be reminded of just how depraved man can truly be. It Hitler, we saw just how black the heart of men can be, and we should be reminded of that fact because we seem so proned to forget it.

Furthermore, our world doesn't seem to want to listen to the voices of those who warn about the dangers posed by certain power hungry global leaders. Just as the leaders of the past silenced Winston Churchill's prophetic warning concerning Hitler's abilition, we too are often inclined to try to quiet those in our world who warn about the dangers around us. Our world needs to see that if bury our head in the sand because we don't want to deal with the difficulties of the Iranians or North Koreans (Just to name a few), then we will likely end up in the same position that Europe found itself in at beginning of World War II.

That's why Hitler is important.

Oddly enough, Hilter had Jewish blood in him.

Pascal wrote:Granted, but we do that to almost every other group to which atrocities have been done. Instead, I think its' because a lot of old people watch the history channel and like it when the television gives them a pat on the back every single day of the week about their position in world war 2. Notice that world war 2 has generally been the primary focus of the history channel, despite the fact that it is such a small segment in retrospect of history. Anybody notice them going through Pre-Edo Era Japan? What about the history of England? Lithuanian history anyone? With history being so very very broad (Accross time and cultures), I think that in the end it all has to come down to them giving old people pats on the backs... which is probobly a large portion of their viewing audience.

Some may criticize this and say they were indeed worthy of such things, indeed. But as much as they are reffered to as the greatest generation, does that mean those who fought in WW1, WW2, the Franco-Prussian War or the forests of ancient Germany died any less terrible deaths? Or is World War 2 the only war that REALLY mattered in history? What about Charles the Hammer who saved all of Europe from being conquered in the Islamic expansion? Let's not fool ourselves, there are ALOT of important things other than simply Hitler and WW2 within history. In this respect I was kind of disgruntled that the History Channel seemed so foccussed on the subject without giving fair reign to the others... I wonder if they will vanish from the air waves when the WW2 ventrans all pass away?

-End Rant
Pascal

you've simply caught it at the wrong times my friend, i myself have watched programming on the history channel about japanese history prior to the meiji era, not only that, but their show "mail call" covers military history from all cultures past and present

Ingemar wrote:2. Although Stalin and Mao killed more people, they did not start any world wars.

This is true, but I think the other part of it is that people just don't remember how many people either of these men had murdered, or the fact that the mass murders they ordered were done in an even more apalling way than Hitlers. Under both these men we don not see the regemented death camps of the Nazis, so easy to point to as evil, but we see more easily forgotten things: people dragged off in the night and slaughtered for little to no reason, entire regions starved because they disliked their rulers, "work camps" which hid people away for years before they were worked to death, impromptu kangaroo courts killing anyone for having been influenced by the west.

Indeed, we forget alot of things. We are warned against Nazism, but the evils of Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin are forgotten. Racism is hated, but the dangers of letting the end justify the means are often ignored. In the end we remember Hitler because he typifies a great evil we conquered to great fanfare. He is easily held up as a symbol because he was destroyed soon after he took power. The others too easily signify humankind's failure to stop great evil, we can't pat ourselves on the back for ending their vile actions because we didn't, and people don't like being reminded of that, they'd much rather see themselves win than acknowledge they've failed to stop evil far more than they have succeeded in stopping it.

shouldn't we keep them in our minds so that we may strive to one day stop their evil as well though?

or rather, shouldn't we keep them in our minds so that we may pray for them so that God may one day redeem those that represent evil that still stand amongst us today

Because of that stupid mustache.

Because many of the same movements that brought Hitler to power exist today, and some of them are powerful even now. Did you know Mussolini's granddaughter is an MEP right now in the neo-fascist party? Ever looked through the political platform of the BNP? (British National Party) Neonazi and klan groups have grown a LOT since 9/11, and while much of that growth is anti-muslim in nature, you better believe they're not also antisemitic/antigay.

There are still many many hitler-esque policies on the books in many countries. Scientologist oppression, homosexual oppression, anti-mormonism, the fight against gay rights, they're all ultimately the same movement as Hitler: zealous fanatical xenophobia used to for political gain.

One would think that we would remember Pol Pot and Idi Amin since they're reigns of terrors were in recent memory.
Perhaps the reason why the Nazis and Hitler are remembered so well is that they
documented everything they did so thoroughly so that it makes it hard for us to
forget.This comes from the basic German need for order.

Hitler took the lives of over a six million jews. The many jews have lost their family members and friends in that war. Grandparents (or Great-Grand parents) may have been through that experience. Also, kaemmerite is right.

Pascal wrote:I wonder if they will vanish from the air waves when the WW2 ventrans all pass away?

... Because the History Channel doesn't show any shows about the Greeks, Romans, Chinese or Aztec wars...









>.<

There were men in history with worse records then Hitler, that is true. Hitler is responsible for about 20 million lives lost during WWII. His contemporary despot Stalin may have killed three times that number. Hitler, however, remains the poster child for the depth humanity can sink to and there are several reasons Hitler stands for that.

1. He is a recent historical figure. Many people alive today knew what the world was like when Hitler ruled Germany. The same could be said of Mao and Stalin, so I won’t belabor the point.

2. He attempted genocide, which is not unique to him, of course, but it is a “goodâ€

While all these are quite right and appropriate, I think I can add two more factors, both of which are going to sound kind of trivial, but both of which I think make a difference.

1.) Hitler was German; and our historical lineage is largely German, including in our language base. Other dictators simply aren't as 'related' to most of us in America as Hitler was.

2.) Hitler was very good at getting his colorfully antagonistic propaganda out beyond German borders (even aside from, y'know, the whole war thing ).

To which I can add, more importantly:

3.) People in Europe and America haven't had to go fight expansionist regimes in Russia and China, to the extent we had to fight against Hitler. (We did against Japan, but there was no central Ultimate Bad Guy character who clearly was the Ultimate Bad Guy for us there. 'Tojo' was just kind of a stock figure, not a real character in our minds.)


Another thing (and summing up a bunch of points from here and elsewhere):

4.) Hitler was more competent than the usual dictator of his sort. Including at pulling more competent people into his orbit instead of just killing them off as potential threats. The things these people were able to come up with, even in war, are iconic. (Somewhat similar about Japan, too, but to a much lesser extent.) When we want to pull up an enduring image of totalitarian expansionism, what do we go to, wherever we are on Earth? We pull out Nazi tropes. (Totalitarian insularism, on the other hand, tends to be communist/socialist imagery.) What does the Empire in Star Wars resemble? Japanese imperialism? Russian or Chinese socialism? Murderous African junta regimes? Islamic expansionism?

Nope. (Japanese imperialism might come the closest.) They're super-efficient, internally, externally, and in-your-face _evil_; which btw Japanese imperialism never was, not to the arrogant degree the Nazis were. Whatever neo-Nazis might be trying to do today, the fact of the matter is that the actual regime in WWII Germany was interested in crushing other people precisely because they could and precisely because they figured that 'right' was tantamount to effective application of power. And they weren't sneaky about this once they got going. This was an internal and external notion: join us or die, and by 'join us' we don't mean for the sake of the exploited worker or for the sake of God. We quite literally mean for your own sake, and it doesn't matter one whit to us either way. "You can either the anvil or the hammer be."

Hitler wasn't just the figurehead for that. Granted, he was intensely stupid in many regards, in an overtly self-destructive way--much as Stalin was. But he took a beaten war-impoverished nation and showed them how to get security by dominating others, and gave them an ideological drive that _wasn't_ internally repressive or self-destructive. (Again, as a matter of objective external criticism, only Japanese Imperialism has come close to matching it in modern times.) This is why people still think fascism can work. Sure--if you're willing to volunteer for the post of Antichrist. {wry g} But the point is that Hitler really did manage to get a significant percentage of his people to volunteer for that post, and not just as a trick. They chose to survive by consciously being ruthless supermen on the Nietzschean model.

And, it worked, just as far as it _could_ have gone. Had Hitler started out in Russia, and managed to get the same organization in place, he could have gone even farther with far greater cost to stop him. (Ditto Imperialist Japan. Indeed, one might argue they actually trumped the Nazi regime, for they did as much or more with fewer actually nationalistic resources.) Hitler's biggest mistake was not emigrating, including to America. {wry grimace}

But then, he needed a people who were ready to go be the bullies of the world if that's what it took to secure peace at home, and _right then_. Whatever 'imperial' tropes people might read into America right now, we're not in the same class--yet. Americans really would rather be left alone (and leave other people alone), and if we go kick butt it really is because (generally as a people) we think we're trying to help the other guy. It isn't because we think we have a manifest destiny to crush the weak under our foot (not that we haven't had moments like that--speaking of Manifest Destiny doctrine... {sigh}) That isn't just a way for enemies to describe what Hitler was doing--_he himself was preaching that_. His own public vision, publicly preached, was quite literally a Nazi boot actively (not just incidentally)_crushing_ the face of everyone else forever.

That makes a lot of difference, including in why he is regarded as the supreme villain of the modern era.

Just thought I'd add that Hitler was able to make Germany strong also because his Nazis were able to get a lot of Germans on their side by portraying themselves as the "good guys" initially by promising to defend Germany from the "godless Communists" that were growing strong and banging on their doors (so to speak).

The Nazi henchmen hanging around the polling booths during election and striking fear into the voters' hearts also contributed to their rise to power too.

I would have to debate the langauge basis. There are a great deal of German Americans, but I don't think it is significant enough to make that an entire point in and of itself. Also, our langauge base is a strange mix of Latin, Spanish, French, Gaelic, and other source langauges. We use Spanish, French, Latin, and other langauges words in our own "American" english, but our primary source language has little to nothing to do with German.



Also, the Japanese literally regarded the enemy as subhuman, as an inferior race. Read letters from Japanese soldiers, or from Prison Guards....they did not believe the enemy to be human, but subhumans with no rights or will. This is no different than Hitler, and is in some ways worse, because the prisons were in some ways even worse than the camps in Germany. Read accounts of the Bataan death march: The Japanese had as much of a propensity for racism and violence as the Germans, only they believed in it with more faith, because it was tied to Emperor worship, Bushido, and beliefs stretching back millenia. Watch how even the current Japanese treat Koreans, and you'll see what I mean.



I cannot imagine, however, a more evil man than Hitler. Stalin did more, to be sure....but Hitler...he preached the destruction of an entire RACE. Not even Stalin did that (He just enjoyed murdering in the general, not in the specific) and Mao...well, Mao is just one big mystery.

Unlike Communists, Nazi's advocated genocide of entire races to cleanse the gene pull. Now, Communist groups have done this before, but it is not within their very doctrines, it isn't one of the prime pillars of their thinking.

Furthermore, Nazis in America have a greater amount of disgust, hatred, and fury directed towards them for their political belief. Communists are considered odd, but it would not be a correct assumption for everyone to believe that all Communists are racists or inherently evil. It would be a correct assumption of both for Nazis.

Finally, the man made himself a GOD. He was worshipped in nearly every sense by his citizens. Stalin was never so present a speaker, and Mao was an ugly little troll with no sense of style or stage presence. Hitler, however, was a master speaker, and had a hypnotic effect in his work and in his words. Therefore, much more is remembered about his actions because he made them so clearly forefront.


Finally, I think he's remembered simply because it was the last real war; the last war where one side was so obviously good and the other side so obviously evil. Since then, we've not won any major land battles. We only saved half of Korea, we lost Vietnam, and Iraq and the middle east ain't looking so hot. These are all the signs of a declining military power...so, people are going to naturally pine for the older days, when the cause was so undescribably right, rather than now, when it is so muddled and confused.


And thats my two cents-
not valid in Canada.



P.S: Also, Pascal, I think your being alittle more than rude. No one in our generation can really understand the fear, the anxiety, the terror those men went through. Not you, and certainly not I. Not even current military can understand it, because for a long time, the verdict was entirely up in the air. For us, there is a deep seated belief that America WILL WIN, no matter what, in part influenced by our victory over Hitler. However, this attitude, while encouraged in that generation, was not inherent to them to our extent. Think of the fear, the constant drudgery, the masses upon masses of men dying in droves. Pray you won't live to see that kind of carnage; it is the sort of thing that drives men beyond the gaps of sanity.

Does the History Channel pat them on the back abit? Yeah, it does. But you know what? They deserve it. To quote Winston Churchill:"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."

It is to those brave men, to those fine examples of human tragedy and human heroism, to that band of brothers, children, fathers and husbands that we owe our lives, our dignities, and our liberties to, for it was them as held us from the tide of hatred, evil, and degredation that welled up in humanity in those times. God save us from such a day again, or, must it come, let him give us men even halfwise like them, so that at the end we may say, "We held Liberty."

Z.

[quote="Zarn Ishtare"]No one in our generation can really understand the fear, the anxiety, the terror those men went through. Not you, and certainly not I. Not even current military can understand it, because for a long time, the verdict was entirely up in the air. For us, there is a deep seated belief that America WILL WIN, no matter what, in part influenced by our victory over Hitler. However, this attitude, while encouraged in that generation, was not inherent to them to our extent. Think of the fear, the constant drudgery, the masses upon masses of men dying in droves. Pray you won't live to see that kind of carnage]

I agree with this, I think that we should pat the veterans on the back all we can while they're still around.

Anywho, I had one thing to mention that I don't think anyone has said yet, though I don't have time to read all the way through some of the lengthier posts so I can't be certain (so, sorry if I repeat someone here.)

It may be that they show documentaries on Hitler so often simply because their ratings may indicate that more people are interested in watching documentaries about Hitler than any other dictator, for whatever the reason. I mean, the History Channel would shoot itself in the foot if they had a lot of shows about the parts of History that no one would care to learn about. Not to say that means that those parts of history aren't as important, simply that many people might percieve them as less interesting-- and if people won't watch it, my guess is they won't play it.

I need to repeat that Hitler was Austrian not German.Ironically he did have courage
and showed it when he was in the German Imperial Army during WWI which earned him the Iron Cross.
Also we need to remember that before Hitler rose to power Germany was pretty much a financial basket case and the confidence of the average German was low.

What concerns me is that the Holocaust and Hitler are lovingly talked of in the history, news, entertainment -- frankly, I think various forms of media are still warming up with Hitler use, or, at least not slowing down -- but any genocide that's even remotely recent... you could hear a pin drop where any coverage, or even historical documentation should occur.

So is Hitler covered because he is, well, safe? No one can say anything if you call Hitler bad! And he's, like, dead.

Believe me, I am pro-Jewish, anti-Hitler. But I don't think victims from other tragedies (including Jewish victims!) should be ignored simply because it's EASIER to talk about Hitler, the totally-safe-to-discuss villain.

And why are the killings in Africa so rarely (as far as I can tell) discussed, except vaguely, and as a regrettable situation, instead of basically mass murders? The U.N. won't even define things as genocide, that are genocide, so they don't *have to* interfere. Really, is that any different from how people at first ignored Hitler, because he didn't affect them? Actually, I think it's worse, because the world should know better, after Hitler.

Perhaps in 50 or 100 years, our current and recent dictators and killers will be as lovingly discussed and raked over?

I think a large part of the reason Hitler is so talked about, is that the group he massacred owns a good part of American Media. I don't mean that to bash the Jewish people, because I think what happend to them was awful. I just think its a bit messed up that nobody cares about the Russians who were slaughtered in greater number during Stalins time. Or the countless other victims around the world. But, then again...Russians don't own much for media.