CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Okay, so.. I was just wondering, it's bad to swear and etc and stuff, right?

So today, I asked my friend if it was bad to listen to music that had swear words in it. And she said yes, because it was impure, or something like that. D:

So I was wondering, wouldn't this apply to anime/manga as well? ._.;

I mean, I lav my anime/manga, and I'd go crazy if I had to give it up, at least for a little while. Dx

This might seem a little silly because y'know... this is a forum filled with Christian anime fans, but I just wanted to hear people's views on this.

Like, what's your reasoning for the whole swearing in anime and manga thing? @o@a [And music and other media too. :3]

And... yeah. :3 [And hopefully I didn't post this in the wrong forum. u_u;;;;]

OK, I don't like swearing. I don't swear, I don't like it when people swear, and I think that the Bible says that it's something we shouldn't do. Opinions of members here tend to vary on this topic, but that's just what I personally believe. So yeah, I don't like it in manga and anime, but I still read them. Mostly because, when I'm reading something, I kind of filter words, like if I see a curse word I'll just auto-substitute a different word-- it's never been an issue that I've struggled with. However, I tend to avoid music with language more because it's harder to edit, and I'm the kind of person who is an audial learner. If I hear something, I tend to pick it up more. So, I usually do fine with language in anime, and try to read things that have an overall edifying message despite some language problems. All though, if it's something that's REALLY riddled with language, like it has loads and loads, I'll probably just avoid that too, just to be safe.

While I don't condone excessive swearing, as someone who writes a fair bit, I can understand the use of swear words in any sort of media that tells a story, be it anime/manga, a movie, or a book. Swearing, when used effectively and paired with the correct character, can be used to convey extreme emotion - anger, desperation, fear. For example, if someone died, would you expect a hot-headed character to say "Gee golly gosh, that's too bad!". I personally wouldn't, and while there may be words that can be substituted, I wouldn't hold anything against an author who writes a swear word in.

Now with that all said, I don't swear in my daily language, and use it sparingly in my writing - it's mainly ascribed to one character. I don't condone excessive and needless cursing, but it can be used well in some situations.

8D Thanks for both of your posts. <3

Kokoro Daisuke wrote:For example, if someone died, would you expect a hot-headed character to say "Gee golly gosh, that's too bad!".

Bahaha. xDD

I'm with Kokoro Daisuke and Yumie for the most part. However, sometimes the swearing just gets to me. Sometimes I find myself thinking, not saying swear words... and I realize the next step is actually saying them. The Bible is pretty clear about swearing, but I don't think it's a clean cut issue when it comes to listening/watching music or other media. I think it takes discretion. You have to know what you can and can't handle (and what's going to make someone else mess up to, you know).

Syreth wrote:I'm with Kokoro Daisuke and Yumie for the most part. However, sometimes the swearing just gets to me. Sometimes I find myself thinking, not saying swear words... and I realize the next step is actually saying them. The Bible is pretty clear about swearing, but I don't think it's a clean cut issue when it comes to listening/watching music or other media. I think it takes discretion. You have to know what you can and can't handle (and what's going to make someone else mess up to, you know).

So if the language in the media doesn't affect me... is it okay? :o And if it does affect me, then should I be more careful of the language in the media? :o

... Stepping in to step out.

Let's just say opinions vary widely on this issue.

I won't get into the actual usage of swear words by us Christians (that always sets off flames). However, I will say I was in the Navy for six years. Ignoring MY language, in a place like the Navy, you're surrounded by people who use large amounts of it.

I can't control what other people around me say, especially on a ship of 2,000 people. Though perhaps it would be preferrable to not be around such copious amounts of language, it can't be helped. Does this make me a bad Christian because the people I hung out with swore like, well, sailors? I don't think it does, to be honest. Nor do I think language in the media is necessarily bad to listen to either.

BUT, I will say, it's all about how you feel about it. If swearing makes you uneasy, like it does with Yumie, then don't listen to music or watch movies with language. If it doesn't bother you, don't worry about it.

The other thing to avoid is if you feel hearing or reading the words is okay, but USING them is wrong, don't fall prey to a situation where exposure to the language tempts you to use it. If that's the case, flee from it as you would any other temptation.

And that's my piece.

Swearing is indeed something I fret about, inside and out of anime\manga\tv\etc. Though while I understand that they are more often used as "embellishments" for emotions, it still appalls me to think the creators of such fiction would make such the decision to add swear words.

I suppose if it's a manga title, you can freely just cross out the words and be fine and dandy with it. Though it's not quite the same case hearing it on TV unless it was bleeped out. Even then, the *BLEEPS* don't hide the fact that the word was being said.

All in all, there really isn't a clear-cut way in hiding from these words. They exist, but it is with caution that we do not follow such examples or use them just because someone else did.

I don't condone swearing and it does offend me...but the fact of life is, in the real world, people DO swear, it's not right, but it happens...

I tend to tune it out though, and I don't swear in my real life..if I slip..I like..freak out and stuff... ^^;

Bap wrote:So if the language in the media doesn't affect me... is it okay? :o And if it does affect me, then should I be more careful of the language in the media? :o

If it doesn't affect your walk with Christ (or anyone else in your life, for that matter) I think it's okay. But it's really a matter of listening to the Holy Spirit and asking God if it's okay. I like what Nate said. You'll probably get a lot of different opinions about it.

Honestly, I think that the whole issue with "swearing" (which technically isn't swearing, as no oath is typically involved, but simply vulgarity, or common language) is just a way to judge and condemn people in one's own mind based entirely on an irrelevent and purely external factor.

...And yet, for some reason, some people still wonder why I didn't become a preacher.

Kaligraphic wrote:Honestly, I think that the whole issue with "swearing" (which technically isn't swearing, as no oath is typically involved, but simply vulgarity, or common language) is just a way to judge and condemn people in one's own mind based entirely on an irrelevent and purely external factor.

...And yet, for some reason, some people still wonder why I didn't become a preacher.

Actually, I think the world needs more preachers like you. Simply put, I don't need to post in this thread since all I'd be doing is repeating what you've already said.

Colossians 3:8 (Amplified Bible)
8But now put away and rid yourselves [completely] of all these things: anger, rage, bad feeling toward others, curses and slander, and foulmouthed abuse and shameful utterances from your lips!

Enough said.

Kaligraphic wrote:Honestly, I think that the whole issue with "swearing" (which technically isn't swearing, as no oath is typically involved, but simply vulgarity, or common language) is just a way to judge and condemn people in one's own mind based entirely on an irrelevent and purely external factor.

...And yet, for some reason, some people still wonder why I didn't become a preacher.

I think that such a statement is both untrue and unfair to people who genuinely dislike vulgar language. There is certainly a valid concern that some may have and we should be respectful of their earnest feeling on the matter whether you agree or disagree with their premise. We should not condemn them for wishing to live as they believe is right in the eyes of God.

"Bad words" are just whatever society labels them as. I could name multiple words that mean the exact same thing as the "S" word, if you please. The majority of them aren't considered taboo to say. Essentially, the word "excrement" could also be considered one of those taboo words, while that certain "S" word could not be. Myself, I don't advocate the use of whatever words are considered wrong or something.

However, at their core, they're only considered wrong if society says they are.

Joshua Christopher wrote:"Bad words" are just whatever society labels them as. I could name multiple words that mean the exact same thing as the "S" word, if you please. The majority of them aren't considered taboo to say. Essentially, the word "excrement" could also be considered one of those taboo words, while that certain "S" word could not be. Myself, I don't advocate the use of whatever words are considered wrong or something.

However, at their core, they're only considered wrong if society says they are.

Yes, many vulgarities are simply words that have been societally deemed so. This, of course, would not necessarily preclude it from being improper or possibly wrong to use such language.

However, it is interesting that at one time some words in English which are now vulgar (and I consider them to be so, personally) were in fact the proper words for what they refer to. I will not repeat them. It is interesting to see how the language changes over time.

I think that perhaps what is at question with the morality of swearing may not be the plain meaning of the word itself but its connotation to those speaking and hearing it.

Might as well expound on my position a bit. I use "bad" words, though I do so significantly less since I left the Navy. However, I realize most Christians do not approve of such language, and thus do my best to not use it in their presence...after all, Paul said he wouldn't even eat meat if it caused a brother to stumble.

I understand where you're coming from, Kaligraphic, and I agree to an extent, and like I said, I use that kind of language a bit too. But to say it's an irrelevant factor, I disagree with.

I mean, would you seriously walk into your church and start throwing around the f-word in all of your sentences? Well, maybe you would...but, I know I wouldn't. That's just...disrespectful of others, in my mind.

Steeltemplar wrote:I think that perhaps what is at question with the morality of swearing may not be the plain meaning of the word itself but its connotation to those speaking and hearing it.

That's basically what I mean.

There's nothing wrong with a bullet, but when it's being shot into someone's face, there is.

Yet, there's nothing wrong with shooting that into an inanimate target, either.

[Mod statement] Let's keep this cool, okay, guys? I think we've had more than a few conversations about language and its proper/improper use. In the end, this will boil down to personal conviction. Let's all keep that in mind, being certain not to condemn others for their views on this issue when it's quite possible that those who disagree with us have carefully examined their spirit before forming their opinions. The Holy Spirit convicts each believer.[/mod statement]

Personally, I come from a similar position as KoDai. As a writer, there are certain instances in which I would not be explicitely opposed to language for the sake of revealing character. However, I have, upto now, refrained from using such language, simply to avoid offending others. Furthermore, I think that I also have to be careful how I live before unbelievers, remembering that what I say/write as a Christian will reflect on Christ via my self-proclaimed association with him.

Personally, I read manga which contains some language. In general, I've trained myself to self-censor. When I read a curse word, my mind plugs in another word. If it bothers me too bad, I just scratch it out. However, in music, I try much more seriously to avoid bad language, because hearing it repeatedly causes me to feel as though I'm absorbing it. I believe it's because when you listen to music, you almost always [vocally] sing along, thereby training yourself to say the word. (Or atleast, I almost always sing along. )

Avoiding the whole moral issue surrounding swear words, I think that there are problems with how swear words are thrown into manga and anime (or any other media) period. There seems to be a tendancy on the part of translators or writers to use swear words to show any level anger or irritation, and I've seen translators substitute swear words for Japanese expressions that (from my limited classwork in Japanese) are simply mild expressions of anger. Swear words are often used as a form of "junk" language (think junk food). If you can't get your anger or irritation across in a meaningful sense, just throw in a few swear words to show anger, but there is little meaning involved. My problem with this (beyond morals) is that it degrades our use of language. Learning to masterfully convey emotion without swear words is more difficult than simply adding swearing, but it adds a literary depth and a level of culture to what's being written. I'm not trying to degrade people who use swear words as being uncultured or anything, but swear words are so misused in today's society that they have very little meaning anymore. They've become a fluff language thrown in when you don't want to express yourself in more meaningful words.

From my experience, polite and cultured language that conveys anger can have much more of an impact on the reader or the hearer than swearing. It sounds strange, I've seen this from certain business managers or military officers who have a certain level of decorum. They most certainly don't need to swear to make you know their anger in intimate detail, and it is a far more fearsome thing to see than a swearing maniac. I just wish more writers and translators would take the time to convey this rather than automatically using swear words.

Puritan wrote:Avoiding the whole moral issue surrounding swear words, I think that there are problems with how swear words are thrown into manga and anime (or any other media) period. There seems to be a tendancy on the part of translators or writers to use swear words to show any level anger or irritation, and I've seen translators substitute swear words for Japanese expressions that (from my limited classwork in Japanese) are simply mild expressions of anger. Swear words are often used as a form of "junk" language (think junk food). If you can't get your anger or irritation across in a meaningful sense, just throw in a few swear words to show anger, but there is little meaning involved. My problem with this (beyond morals) is that it degrades our use of language. Learning to masterfully convey emotion without swear words is more difficult than simply adding swearing, but it adds a literary depth and a level of culture to what's being written. I'm not trying to degrade people who use swear words as being uncultured or anything, but swear words are so misused in today's society that they have very little meaning anymore. They've become a fluff language thrown in when you don't want to express yourself in more meaningful words.

From my experience, polite and cultured language that conveys anger can have much more of an impact on the reader or the hearer than swearing. It sounds strange, I've seen this from certain business managers or military officers who have a certain level of decorum. They most certainly don't need to swear to make you know their anger in intimate detail, and it is a far more fearsome thing to see than a swearing maniac. I just wish more writers and translators would take the time to convey this rather than automatically using swear words.

That is a real problem. It seems like some people take it upon themselves to rewrite dialogue and insert unjustified profanity in phrases like taihen da, urusai na and shimatta... all of which could be used in mixed company in Japan.

It seems that when they decide a series cannot be for kids, they just boost the profanity substantially (compare the Excel Saga sub and dub for example) and when they want to market something for kids, they cut down the profanity even when it was the original intent (I knew AnimeWorks was trying to market Rurouni Kenshin for TV when the S-word began disappearing from the subtitles)

It's part of being human.Even the saints in the Bible had trouble reigning in their language from time to time.The best example is St.Peter who being a fisherman knew a lot of good old fashioned swear words.He also had problems with keeping his temper.The best example of St.Peter loosing it after Pentecost is his confrontation with Simon Magus.Evidently St.Luke left out some of the saltier parts of his diatribe when he later recorded the event.
It's also unavoidable in today's world.You go just about anywhere and people are using the 'f' word and worse.
I don't object when I hear it from other guys,it's when girls go around using vulgar words like the 'f' word that I find offensive.

mitsuki lover wrote:You go just about anywhere and people are using the 'f' word and worse.

It's just the new way of saying "exclamation mark!" :/ I personally find it annoying how it's used as a one-word sentence that can say alot, or a verb or an adjective :/ Reminds me of this mp3 thing of how it can be used in many ways like that and even though it has so many meanings, I find it annoying^^

Another thing I find annoying when it comes to subs/manga, if when they slip swears and f-words every here and there, when you know the translation doesn't quite make it out to be that :/ Especially annoying if you know it's not in the character's nature to say words that harsh (the manga thing is an example from when I was reading through different One Piece scans today^^)

I don't have much of a problem with swearing. Most bad words became bad words because society said so. And some bad words aren't bad words at all. But I hate the F Bomb...

AnimeHeretic wrote:That is a real problem. It seems like some people take it upon themselves to rewrite dialogue and insert unjustified profanity in phrases like taihen da, urusai na and shimatta... all of which could be used in mixed company in Japan.

That is quite true. I've seen urusai[ range from "oh shut up" all the way to including the Fbomb. I've seen shimatta range from "oh darn" to something more vulgar.

I doubt the word itself is vulgar, but either way, it works to an extent.

This is a topic that will likely be debated about forever. For myself, swearing doesn't personally offend me much. I don't honestly feel like "swear" words are bad in themselves. The only thing actually making them "bad" is that society labels them as "bad". Should a Christian use them, though? I would say no.

"Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed be among you. Such sins have no place among God's people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes - these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God."
-Ephesians 5: 3-4

"You used to do them when your life was a part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language."
-Colossians 3: 7-8

Regardless of what you believe about swearing or what society thinks, Christians should not use it because we are not a part of this would and we should stand out as such. A Christian who swears does nothing to show the light of God or to stand apart in this world in front of others, and at worst, turn others away from seeking God further.

I'll never forget a co-worker of mine who couldn't figure out why he couldn't convince someone he was witnessing to about God's love. Without missing a beat, the next line out of his mouth was: "Oh, can you come help me clear the **** parking lot?"

How are we supposed to stand apart as not of this world if we act like members of it? That is the point of Christians not using those words. Whether they are really bad or not is not the issue. We shouldn't use them because we are not part of this world.

-

Listening to swearing is a whole different issue. The age old question: Is it okay to listen to swearing? Some argue that it's okay because you are not doing the swearing. Others think you shouldn't because you are not filling your mind with "good things". Who is correct? Probably both, to some extent. Let me say I don't believe it is a sin. I seriously doubt God is going to disown you because you read a manga with some swearing or even watch "Saving Private Ryan."

There are, however, negative effects to indulging to much with entertainment with excessive swearing for an extended period of time. If you listen to it every single day for extensive periods of time, it's easy to catch your speech pattern attempting to mimic what you hear. In some ways, such entertainment can be a stumbling block, even if it isn't neccesarily sin.

What you watch, if it has cussing, isn't neccesarily a sin. But one should ask God if they have doubts if something is alright before they indulge in them.

For my two cents, I tend to do what Yumie and Osaka do, as I actually self-censor when reading these words. It's automatic and I don't even realize I'm doing it anymore, for the most part.

However, in music, I do avoid songs with curse words. Because I do not listen to music. I sing along. Can't help it. If a song's playing and I know the words, I'm gonna sing it. So I don't feel like censoring a song when singing along because it breaks up the experience. Same goes for songs with lewd content, regardless of words.

So I haven't really given an opinion on the whole issue, but I did want to share my own media consuming behaviors and acknowledge my reasons for doing so.

However, in music, I do avoid songs with curse words. Because I do not listen to music. I sing along. Can't help it. If a song's playing and I know the words, I'm gonna sing it. So I don't feel like censoring a song when singing along because it breaks up the experience. Same goes for songs with lewd content, regardless of words.

I'm kinda the same, though I don't mind it if theres one or two bad words (depending on how obvious - and the word). Same goes for bad content.

Rogie wrote:However, in music, I do avoid songs with curse words. Because I do not listen to music. I sing along. Can't help it. If a song's playing and I know the words, I'm gonna sing it. So I don't feel like censoring a song when singing along because it breaks up the experience. Same goes for songs with lewd content, regardless of words.

Oh yeah, that's another biggie I forgot to mention about music. I also sing along, even if I hate the song-- if I know the words, I can't help it! And it really does break up a song to censor it, though I think it's really funny when you're in the car with a friend/friends and a curse word is about to blare out, so you shout a substitute word real loud. Catches 'em off guard. Anyways.