CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

click here for article (this was found on ANN) I predicted anime and manga books would be censored. Seems my reasoning was wrong though.

I applaud that kid for actually reporting the inappropriate content to his mother. I'm sure a lot of kids never would have said a word about it.

Ooooh but it wasn't really A manga just "a history of manga". And I'm not surprised. I saw an article that talked about a history of hentai and how it started out as paintings etc. and probably went to thing like old versions of manga :/
Hoping this won't make ALL manga look bad over there though :/

Is that the 60 years of manga non-fiction book with Astro Boy on the cover? I've read it and while very good, unfortunately it does have some sex related pages. Skip that part brother.
I commend the boy, I really do.

Good for him most people wouldnt do that.

i just hope this doesnt cause people to be left with a bad taste in their mouth about anime/manga, especially anime and manga that's perfectly innocent.

This seriously digusts me. It's not a question of some teen feeling he shouldn't see certain material, or his parents deciding that they don't want their children seeing that material, it's the idea that a library would be in the business of removing books that people thought "offensive". It's also the issue of this one parent being the deciding factor in deciding what all people should be allowed to see or read. Why are her standards so much more important that all of those who did not complain, or see anything wrong in a library containing books that they don't personally like? I could tell you that I've seen the book in question and know that it doesn't contain anything that would merit such treatment, but that would be irrelevant. At issue is whether or not people are free to read the books they chose to at a public library, an institution that should be dedicated to safeguarding those rights and not restricting them.

What about novels with graphic sex scenes and coarse language in them? Lord knows there are plenty of those.

They should not have banned the book. They should have just moved it to a different section and maybe put a warning on the cover.

well, hentai is a big part of anime-land. It would be hard to NOT mention it in an explanation of anime.

The document linked indicates that the book had pornographic images, given the portion which reads, "describes the history of Japanese comics and contains reproductions of pornographic cartoons depicting sex acts".

If that is the case it is indeed inappropriate for youth to see and I would hope sincerely that if I had children that they could go to the library without seeing such. It is a public institution, but for that very reason they need to assure that certain standards of decency are maintained in terms of what they carry and to whom it is made available.

As well, we cannot say that the complaint alone was the reason the book was removed. It may have simply caused a review of the title which then resulted in the decision being made for its removal.

Shiroi makes a good point that it could have been moved to some manner of special section. That is a viable option.

However, if the book does indeed have the content that this document ascribes to it then I would rather see it banned than continue to be available for children. If one wishes to read this book, I believe it is not the burden of the public library to provide it given its questionable nature. There are book stores that carry it or books like it, I am sure, and one could procure a copy for themselves easily enough by purchasing it from one of these.

There are probably other books less appropriate at a public library, however, I am glad that it was banned because it shows people still give a rip about what their kids are reading. Like others have said, it's a shame that much of the anime market is polluted with hentai that gives the whole genre a bad name. If anything, it shows that people need discernment when they have interest in anime or else they or their kids could be tempted or stumbled.

Most libraries distinguish between children's and adults sections. It would have been failry simple to move the book to a different category instead of making it unavailable to everyone. Believe it or not, everything doesn't have to be made safe for six-year olds and the easily offended.

If they took that book out of the library then they need to be consistant and take any other books out that have anything to do with sex acts. I don't care that they took out the book, but I do care about them being consistant.

I consider hentai a personal slap to the face. I'd have about twice as many dvds if animators didn't feel the need to add random nudety into their movies (I know thats kinda off the topic of libraries but it's the same with manga, there are some real great ones out there once you get past all the sex).

Technomancer wrote:Most libraries distinguish between children's and adults sections. It would have been failry simple to move the book to a different category instead of making it unavailable to everyone. Believe it or not, everything doesn't have to be made safe for six-year olds and the easily offended.

Since I have never seen an explicitly adult section in a public library, I assume you refer to the general area which is accessible to everyone.

While six-year-olds should also be protected, I really had in mind those of the 9-13 age range who are no longer in the children's section. However, if the book does feature images which are pornographic then I should think that they are not appropriate access by anyone under 18.

The document states: "describes the history of Japanese comics and contains reproductions of pornographic cartoons depicting sex acts".

Unless that is a gross exaggeration, then there are pornographic images in the book. In the United States, materials portraying such images are not sold to those under the age of 18. That being the case, I do not think they should be available freely at the library. Someone at 16 or 17 has likely already been exposed to pornography of some kind and, yes, they are more mature. However, I see no need to provide them with a near occasion to sin.

I would agree with jon0, btw. There should be a consistent policy with whatever they do.

I have to side with Technomancer on this issue. Every library I've ever been in has an adult section. I've read a couple of articles on this issue, and one of them even stated that the book in question was catalogued as an adult title. I suppose someone might have looked at the book and failed to file it away as such, because of the art. Unless a library is in a school, libraries have no business removing book 'to protect the children'. Libraries are a public resource, and the book in question is incredibly valuable as a research book on Japanese art. Yes, it does cover ALL aspects of manga, and as such it has a single chapter dealing with the pornographic areas of the medium. That's called 'accurate history', not 'pornography'.

There's also a huge difference between pornographic material, which is marketed with the pure intention of portraying erotic material and isn't stocked by ANY library I've ever been to, and material that has depictions of (sometimes even graphic) sex.

I agree with those AGAINST this book. The Library is a place where FAMILIES can go to read and research... If this book is as bad as they say, they HAD THE RIGHT to remove it.

I myself was excite/surprised to see manga in my library, though a small selection... and when one of the kids I babysat for started reading them, because he knew I liked them I was like. "Let me read that before you read to much into it." Luckily it was only a Gundam wing Manga and he lost interest in it. (he is only in the 5th Grade)

I agree with ST. If someone wanted to read this book they can go buy it. It's not hard to so.

I usually prefer truth over a false rosy image, but I seem to be in the minority in this world.

"Oh, Oh, a book actually covers the subject! Heavens to Betsy! I don't think I like all of the subject, so let's get rid of materials that talk about the part that I don't like!"

Well, I don't like Keynesian economic theory - so I could probably object to most of their books on economics. On the other hand, to do so would be stupid.

Actually, we in the West tend to have a rather messed up view of sex - really, it makes no sense to not talk about it for 18 years (plus or minus by country) and then to leave the education to dirty magazines and such. Really, if parents looked at children as people being trained for adulthood, rather than as "innocent" little pets to be protected, their kids wouldn't grow up to need pornography to learn the fact of life.

I'm not saying to inundate kids with porn or anything like that, don't misunderstand me here. The simple fact is that a lot of teenage rebellion comes from the divide between the rosy world one was kept in as a child and a growing awareness of what the world is really like. Because of this, teens think that their parents are either ignorant of real life - they didn't train because they didn't know - or liars - they knew and still showed that false perception of reality. Not that it's easy to show someone something that will sadden them, but sometimes love means not avoiding what's hard.

Seriously, slap a label on it if you like and be done with the matter. Then slap one on the Bible, because it too contains graphic material.

ChristianRonin wrote:If this book is as bad as they say, they HAD THE RIGHT to remove it.

I disagree entirely. The government has no right to control information.

I side with Technomancer, Jon0, Kaligraphic, and the others.

EDIT: Aside from classified material that could be detrimental to the workings of the government, they have every right to control that. But I don't think a book on the history of manga in Japan qualifies.

How..in the world can you compare something as Good as The Bible to something as lewd as this book?

I mean come on! in The Bible Those who committed acts like David's Son did to his sister (raping her) and all that jazz wasn't looked upon on a great and high manner.

The content in this book from what I understand, not only had that content in there, but it also had beastiality too. (SP)

You can't compare the Bible to worldy stuff like the manga, and those who support this seemed to hold something like it on a higher plane that normal books.

IT'S JUST A BOOK! A book with things that young children shouldn't be seeing.

here is a verse from Phillipians : Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

Is this Noble? Right? Pure? Lovely? Admiralble? NO! IT's not! I stay with my stance on this issue, it may be a bit conservative to some on this board.. but I think this verse makes it pretty clear what we should say on this issue...

Also, I don't agree with you, Kaligraphic, Just because some are old enough to understand sex, doesn't mean we should know everything about it HERE and NOW. That can lead to major stumbling blocks and pornagraphic addictions IMO.

Also, let's not leave it up to a book to teach anyone about sex...

Kaligraphic wrote:I usually prefer truth over a false rosy image, but I seem to be in the minority in this world.

"Oh, Oh, a book actually covers the subject! Heavens to Betsy! I don't think I like all of the subject, so let's get rid of materials that talk about the part that I don't like!"

Well, I don't like Keynesian economic theory - so I could probably object to most of their books on economics. On the other hand, to do so would be stupid.

Actually, we in the West tend to have a rather messed up view of sex - really, it makes no sense to not talk about it for 18 years (plus or minus by country) and then to leave the education to dirty magazines and such. Really, if parents looked at children as people being trained for adulthood, rather than as "innocent" little pets to be protected, their kids wouldn't grow up to need pornography to learn the fact of life.

I'm not saying to inundate kids with porn or anything like that, don't misunderstand me here. The simple fact is that a lot of teenage rebellion comes from the divide between the rosy world one was kept in as a child and a growing awareness of what the world is really like. Because of this, teens think that their parents are either ignorant of real life - they didn't train because they didn't know - or liars - they knew and still showed that false perception of reality. Not that it's easy to show someone something that will sadden them, but sometimes love means not avoiding what's hard.

Seriously, slap a label on it if you like and be done with the matter. Then slap one on the Bible, because it too contains graphic material.

I think that what needs to be remembered is that the material shown in this book is in fact meant as pornography even if it is being displayed for informative purpose. It is hentai images we are talking about here, after all. The argument that it somehow is no longer pornography simply because it is in an informational text, I think, is a non sequitur.

As well, your argument about removing subjects that one simply does not like is purely attacking a straw man. No one here has suggested anything that severe. Rather, your argument seeks to make reasonable concerns seem ridiculous by taking them to extremes that were never intended.

As for parental education of their children on sexuality, I think that the only role this book would have to play is to display a warped version of sexuality as is prevalent in hentai. I agree that parents need to educate children more properly and in more depth so that a proper formation of sexual morality may be formed. Exposing the children to hentai is not a way to accomplish this goal, I think.

I wouldn't make any overall statement of who is right or wrong here unless I had actually seen the book in question.
The questions I would have would be:
1.What section of the library was it in?
2.How many pages/chapters were actually dedicated to hentai?
3.How old was the kid?
4.What kind of policy did the library already have in place for such books?

I would agree that a consistent policy about this is needed. I would go as far to say that no pornographic images should ever be present in adult or children's section in a library. Nobody should be out to support images that promote adultery. Of course, this policy could never be implemented unless people could share an absolute sense of morality or agree on criteria that an image must measure up to before it could be present in a public library.

That said, the book could have easily addressed the facts about hentai and such without displaying any inappropriate images (whether they're acceptable in other cultures or sections of the library or not). I'm not as concerned about the information as I am the images, although both could potentially be equally sinful. Enough of that stuff is available to the public as it is. If someone really wants to see that kind of stuff, it's not hard to go find -- but personally, I would rather have people have to try to look for it, than to have an impressionable child or young person stumble upon it in the comic book section of a library.

Since this seems to matter to people, let's state this clearly: The book does not contain hentai or any sort of graphic sexual acts. Yes, there is nudity, but nothing of the sort that in the cinema would rate anything beyond an 'R' rating.

Technomancer wrote:Since this seems to matter to people, let's state this clearly: The book does not contain hentai or any sort of graphic sexual acts. Yes, there is nudity, but nothing of the sort that in the cinema would rate anything beyond an 'R' rating.

What's your definition of pornography?

allow me to quote from the article...that itself proves that there is indeed pornagraphic material... I don't think someone would just blow this out of proportion unless it was necassary...

"The Book, which had been checked out from the Victorville Branch library, describes the history of Japanese comics and contains reproductions of pornagraphic cartoons depicting sex acts including, sex with animals.."

i think this states it pretty clearly...right there states it... Pornagraphic IS pornagraphic... There is no grey area... there are laws against this stuff too...and I don't understand why this is even being supported...

Technomancer wrote:Since this seems to matter to people, let's state this clearly: The book does not contain hentai or any sort of graphic sexual acts. Yes, there is nudity, but nothing of the sort that in the cinema would rate anything beyond an 'R' rating.

Without making any statement as to whether or not the nudity is appropriate for a public library, I am curious about why it is that your statement seems to be directly at odds with the official one. I'm not accusing you of being the one who is wrong here, mind you. I would ask, though, if you believe that the statement made in the article is a false one. And if it is, what do you believe is their motivation?

Kaligraphic wrote:"Oh, Oh, a book actually covers the subject! Heavens to Betsy! I don't think I like all of the subject, so let's get rid of materials that talk about the part that I don't like!"

Yeah, but there's a difference between denying the fact that something bad actually exists and leaving it there on a plate for anybody to read. They should make an 18+ zone for libraries where kids aren't allowed to go.

Slater wrote:well, hentai is a big part of anime-land. It would be hard to NOT mention it in an explanation of anime.

heck, even Gilles Poitras mentions it a couple times in his Anime Companion (a book every otaku must have!). But even there, it's just to let people know such a thing exists.

OK, let's get some things straight here. Most libraries make it a habit of not carrying pornography of the visual type. Playboy and the like are not found there. So the idea of banning content from libraries is not unusual. In those that carry sexually explicit literature (novels not visual) or sex manuals, they carry them in places where an adult reader has to request them from the staff to prevent minors from accessing it. So all the outrage for a library acting against this kind of material is a moot point... it is COMMON PRACTICE.

<edit-- removed as someone showed me another link identifying the book officially>

The fact of the matter is that whether by negligence or ignorance, the library in question made it possible for a minor to borrow a book that did have some level of sexually explicit material. That's rather serious, legally and it is understandable that San Bernadino County questions the judgement of the library.

From Article wrote:Although the book in question was not located in the children’s section of the Victorville library, it was on a shelf next to other books including comics popular with children.

Somebody just put it in with the other manga without concern for content it seems, which does not bode well for trusting the staff judgement.

Also, they are not banning all anime, but one book that was deemed to be offensive for community standards, and looking to see if there were any more lapses of judgement.

[quote="from article"]“I have directed our County Library System to research and report back to me regarding what methods the county may employ to better control which materials are available to be checked out by children,â€

I think that we defined pornography in a past thread. Pornographic matterial doesn't necesarily involve nudity, and nudity doesn't necesarily imply pornographic, even though, unfortunately, in today's world the two are more often related than not. However, if there is nudity in the context of the term "hentai" (which is Japanese for pervert and has become a term that pretty literally means "pornographic anime"), then it is next to impossible, without a radically liberal definition of the term pornographic, to argue that such an image is NOT pornographic.