CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I'm getting really tired of waiting for english manga volumes, so I've considered learning Japanese...Is it really hard to learn? How long does it take to learn it good enough to read manga?

With a dictionary handy, I'd say 2-3 years, assuming that you retain most of the things you learn. ^_^; But that's a rough estimate based on the classes I've taken and my own proficiency at reading manga in Japanese. If you want to go without a dictionary all the way through, then I don't know if I could give you a rough estimate...

EDIT: Raiden's post reminded me - if you're planning on self teaching, it could potentially take longer if you're not well disciplined about it. ^_^; I know I couldn't be.

It's very very hard. Trust me, I'm trying to learn the language myself.

Howsabout learning not only a spoken language with completely different syntax (sentence structure), but two new alphabets (as well as Kanji)? Sound easy?

Mind you, I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm intent on learning Japanese myself, but it isn't easy. It's hard. You should look for an instructor (preferably a Japanese one), and possibly some other people who are learning it to practice with.

.rai//

dreamhacker wrote:I'm getting really tired of waiting for english manga volumes, so I've considered learning Japanese...Is it really hard to learn? How long does it take to learn it good enough to read manga?

I'd say that the time you'd spend learning the language to know it fluently, would almost be a waste concidering you want to read all the untranslated ones :/ Not that's it's a waste to learn the language, but depending how you learn it and even then it would take YEARS even with classes and self-teaching yourself to know enough to :/ Besides, have fun reading manga that don't even COME with furigana at the side^^ 2,000 kanji characters to try and memorize, learn the vocab to, and remembering exceptions for when a letter changes to another to form a different word etc. etc. ^^

BTW after a years years of classes and self-teaching through JPOP lyrics and subs etc. I can read Japanese Sailor Moon manga quite well (HAS furigana) but mostly I know it well it because not only did I read it with translations the first time through, but I know the basic plot so words like "maboroshi ginzuishou" are quite familiar and frequent^^). So being for a younger age group, vocab isn't too too difficult.

It's a lot of work, but as for how hard it is depends. The years I spent studying it were fun, so it didn;t seem like hard work, but it was a big effort. I regret not having the time or resoruces to continue it. Tenshi no Ai raises a interesting point. Being able to understand doesn't always mean fluency. I can struggle through Love Hina and Negima in Japanese thanks to the Furigana even though I couldn't speak or read at an adult level. Not so much the word for word comprehension as it was the "basic sense"

Well, most other languages than my own and english have a weird sentence structure, so that wouldn't be too hard to live with...But the Kanjis is what worries me, I mean, there are like over 4,000 I've heard

There are four languages I'm gonna learn sometime through my life...That is Japanese, Hebrew, Greek and Arabic, so I should start learn one soon, and of course it will be Japanese first . Currently I'm "learning" Spanish at school, but that is a boring language, so I'm just getting good grades though I'll never be able to use it in real life

EDIT: Tenshi, at least this language is more fun to learn than other "easier" ones

dreamhacker wrote:
EDIT: Tenshi, at least this language is more fun to learn than other "easier" ones

I'll agree with that. I'm sorry but I HATED French!!! Ooh I was glad I could get out of that and start on some Nihongo^^ Although if I could, it would be fun to learn latin^^ I like that language^^

Ok Kanji If you master like 2000 or more characters you can read 90% of the Japanese News paper with ease. Kana has 204 Characters. there is Hiragana has 102 characters and then there is Katakana has 102 Characters. Hiragana is for Native Japanese words and Katakana is for Loan words and sound mimics. Oh and one more thing(sounds like Uncal off of Jackey Chan) Kanji is charaters that were adopted form the chiness.

Tenshi no Ai wrote:I'll agree with that. I'm sorry but I HATED French!!! Ooh I was glad I could get out of that and start on some Nihongo^^ Although if I could, it would be fun to learn latin^^ I like that language^^

I had French at school some years ago...Hated it (and I also kinda hate France in general ), wasn't good at it either...Now I learn Spanish, which I'm getting excellent grades at even though I don't know the language (dictionaries ftw! )...And at lesat japanese have to be easier to pronounce than French

Syaoran wrote:Ok Kanji If you master like 2000 or more characters you can read 90% of the Japanese News paper with ease. Kana has 204 Characters. there is Hiragana has 102 characters and then there is Katakana has 102 Characters. Hiragana is for Native Japanese words and Katakana is for Loan words and sound mimics. Oh and one more thing(sounds like Uncal off of Jackey Chan) Kanji is charaters that were adopted form the chiness.

Why couldn't they keep to using only the Kana, instead of stealing the Chinese Kanjis?

Syaoran wrote: Kana has 204 Characters. there is Hiragana has 102 characters and then there is Katakana has 102 Characters. .

Sometimes I forget just how many characters there are! I really don't think Katakana has over a hundred more characters than Hiragana though :/ Maybe if you want to spell things like "vi" etc but even then I doubt there's over 100!

Here's the lists BTW for a quick reference on the two if ya want, dreamhacker.

Katakana:
http://budostuff.com/site_eng/gifs/wyszycie/kata-char.gif

Hiragana:
http://zenvirus.com/graphics/hiragana-a-i-u-e-o-png.png
http://zenvirus.com/graphics/hiragana-kya-kyu-kyo-png.png

Heh, I remember in my classes how we were taught to memorize some of these through pics. I think "a" was supposed to be of a turtle looking up or something and "i" was 2 snakes, etc. etc.

Tenshi no Ai wrote:Sometimes I forget just how many characters there are! I really don't think Katakana has over a hundred more characters than Hiragana though :/ Maybe if you want to spell things like "vi" etc but even then I doubt there's over 100!

Here's the lists BTW for a quick reference on the two if ya want, dreamhacker.

Katakana:
http://budostuff.com/site_eng/gifs/wyszycie/kata-char.gif

Hiragana:
http://zenvirus.com/graphics/hiragana-a-i-u-e-o-png.png
http://zenvirus.com/graphics/hiragana-kya-kyu-kyo-png.png

Heh, I remember in my classes how we were taught to memorize some of these through pics. I think "a" was supposed to be of a turtle looking up or something and "i" was 2 snakes, etc. etc.

There are 46 each of Hiragana/Katakana modern (there are two archaic characters (wi and we). The Japanese education system demands students know 1954 kanji upon graduation. Perhaps the other poster meant the marks used to distinguish the h row from their b and p sounds.

memorizing kana isnt as hard as it sounds, you really dont need to memorize all 100+, since more then half of them are just modifications of other kanas. for an example of what i mean, look at the k group and the g group

Those pics sounds like a good idea...I acctually tried to learn some of them myself, remembered those few I learned as long as I kept writing them everyday (that I did at school ). Those I remembered best were those 3 in Naruto. I had seen them on a cover, and then I kinda remembered them easily as I have a bit "photo-memory" (remembers things I see easily, i.e. not the text in books, but how the whole paged looked like and such...It's really cool )

Lynx wrote:memorizing kana isnt as hard as it sounds, you really dont need to memorize all 100+, since more then half of them are just modifications of other kanas. for an example of what i mean, look at the k group and the g group

^-^ I agree. Once you learn kana well reading it becomes almost second nature. It's definitely the kanji that's the difficult part about learning to read Japanese.

Kana is the name for Hiragana and Katakana. that is why there is 204 charcters.

here is a list that I got from a book.
a i u e o
ka ki ku ke ko
sa shi su se so
ta chi tsu te to
na ni nu ne no
ha hi fu he ho
ma mi mu me mo
ya yu yo
ra ri ru re ro
wa

ga gi gu ge go
za ji zu ze zo
da de do
ba bi bu be bo
pa pi pu pe po
kya kyu kyo
sha shu sho
cha chu cho
nya nyu nyo
hya hyu hyo
mya myu myo
rya ryu ryo
gya gyu gyo
ja ju jo
bya byu byo
pya byu pyo
n

for katakana it is the same but with differnt characters.

http://www.kanjistep.com/

thats a great resource also for learning kana and kanji, look under "online teaching" for some good help. The way i'd recommend learning them is by starting with one set of kana, (hirigana is more common so i started with this one), going through each set of 5 kana with the same first letters. when i learned those i would learn another 5. when i knew them all i'd write them all out a lot whenever i had a second, between classes or whenever, just to practice... and actually reading japanese manga helps emensely with reconizing kana... http://www.ebay.com has some cheap japanese manga

Gonna start practicing again...Now I have something fun to do in the classes

I don't know if this has been said but after 2 years of Japanese up to the 202 level and years of tutoring, Japanese is incredibly hard and the teachers can be evil at times... Although tutors and the people are incredibly nice. But according to one of my proffessors Japanese is one of the four hardest languages on the Earth to learn for English speakers. But you're from Norway so maybe speaking Norwigian (sorry if I spelt it wrong) changes things.

Therefore it isn't something for the every person to do and whatever you do, don't take it for your foriegn language requirement in college, it will murder you! Concerning the language itself it is fun to learn a few things but speaking and listening will be easier than reading and writing... evil wicked far too similiar looking symbols created by the cheuvanistic pig Confusious. (Seriously it is either the kanji for woman or wife that is a pictograph of a person with a broom and a person in a house respectively) But he had his reasons, rumor has it that he was incredibly ugly and therefore no girl would marry him so he got revenge by creating a sexist language... I wonder if he invented the idea of karma too.

Gambate,
Pascal

Pascal wrote: But according to one of my proffessors Japanese is one of the four hardest languages on the Earth to learn for English speakers. But you're from Norway so maybe speaking Norwigian (sorry if I spelt it wrong) changes things.

I somehow doubt that :/ While I find it extremely easy to try and learn new vocab and stuff (although I've never been super-good with particles^^) and well, ok Kanji is tough, sometimes it can't really compare to things like Swahili, Russian (just by the looks of it, oy!) and Chinese (needing to use specific voice tones or else your saying a different word... oh and all they have in kanji^^)

"Tough languages" are relative. Imagine how difficult it is for people to learn English spelling. Many *English* speakers have atrocious orthography, and we have an insane number of irregular verbs.

Russian uses fusional stems, which can make learning their verb forms unpredictable (to non-Slav speakers) and sometimes unanalyseable.

Swahili and most Bantu languages have specific concords for nouns which simply have to be memorized, and there are a large number of them.

Every language has its difficulties, and if you natively speak a language that is not closely related, it will be harder for you to acquire it. That's just how languages are. There's no way to make an absolute assessment on how tough a language is to learn.

After seeing the dubbed Naruto, I've got the idea that english people really have trouble pronoucing Japanese words at least. I mean, I can pronounce them better than the english dubbers
Else, are there anything about the language that makes it hard to learn for english people (the written part)...?