CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:53 am**

Last week, I took an english test that had to do with the Book Huckleberry Finn (I'm sure some of you read it) One question was "Why did Jim run away" and my choices were:

A. Jim didnt want to be sold into slavery
B. Jim wanted to save his family.
C. Mr. SmartyPants does not remember what this was because it doesn't matter.
D. A and B
E. All the above

I was puzzled there, thinking about it for about 5 minutes. I couldn't decide if it were A or D. (I even wrote on my arm so I would remember to look it up) I was pretty sure it was A, so I put down A.

The next day rolls around... and I get it wrong! What..... sillyness! How dare he mark me wrong! I was positive it was A instead of D! Then the idea dawned upon me! I thought it would be a neat idea to type something up and refute his dastardly claims (mwahha)

so I wrote and gave him the following

Ryan Kim
1/11/06

Why I Should Gain One Point and Have Question 17 Marked Correct

During the test on January 10th, 2006 during Period 1, I stumbled upon Question 17. The Question was along the lines of "What was Jim's reason for running away?" The question looked ambiguous to me, but I marked A. And the next day found out that I was incorrect. I believe that I am indeed correct and that I deserve an extra point on my English Test.

Researching the text myself, Chapter 8 of the text: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is where Jim appears to Huck after he ran away from his former master. In the chapter, there is no mention of Jim's family. He only gives one reason for running away: That his former master (Either Widow Douglas or Miss Watson) was going to sell him to a slave trader. He does infact mention his family, however that is in a much later Chapter, after Huck and Jim leave Jackson Island. It is impossible to conclude that Jim initially ran away to free his family because there is no evidence to support that. Notice that the thought of freeing his family is revealed to us at a later chapter, while they are on the run. You can speculate that it was one of Jim's motives, but never revealed it to us, but there is no evidence for that. The fact that he said he ran away because he was going to be sold means he would of ran away wether or not he was planning to save his family.

Consider this scenario: You are driving to Bestbuy to buy a videogame. Now on your way to Bestbuy, at the corner of your eye you see a Starbucks. You think to yourself "Well, I see a Starbucks, it's on the way to Bestbuy, I got a few extras dollars, why don't I stop by and get a Java Chip Frappuchino?" You purchase your frosty drink and drive to Bestbuy, purchase your game, and go back home.

Now is it logical for me to conclude that the reason why you got on the road was to buy a Frappuchino and a videogame? Absolutely Not! The reason why you got on the road was to buy your videogame, not a Frappuchino. The idea of getting a Frappuchino was merely an idea that crossed your path while you were on the road pursuing your goal. If that is illogical, then how is it logical to claim that Jim ran away from his former master to free his family, when a) He never mentioned it in chapter 8, and b) The idea was revealed to us at a much later chapter.

Now today rolls by (I wasn't unable to see him at all since then) and he wanted to discuss it with me. He said that he was amused and liked my initiative (I too did it because it seemed amusing)

He tried to refute my claims, and I was trying to refute his. He tells me the "best answer was D" Because I'm assuming that when Jim says something, thats all thats in his mind. I tell him that you're assuming something unsaid. Therefore The answer has to be ambiguous. He also told me that my Best Buy analogy was irrelevant, which I totally disagree with.

Because of my "initiative" he was willing to give me a point... one percentage point. Not another point of how much the test was out of >_> (He said one percentage point was about an extra half-point, that cheap cheap man! I should of wrote another paper explaining why I should get one TEST point, not one PERCENTAGE point... but I won't)

I told him he was never going to change my view, and that the correct answer should have been A, not D. Although he thinks otherwise, MR. MCMULLEN IS WRONG! AND FOREVER WILL BE WRONG! :mutter:

(according to me anyway, im sure he thinks the same for me :lol:

)

It was indeed a fun experience though :lol:

It was good for laughs for the both of us.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:55 am**

I had a similar experience with a teacher who insisted that ALL prehistoric things were dinosaurs...

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:01 pm**

Sometimes it is best to conceed the point and get on the teachers good side instead of argueing.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:03 pm**

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:
A. Jim didnt want to be sold into slavery
B. Jim wanted to save his family.
C. I don't remember but it doesn't matter
D. A and B
E. All the above

That's actually a very poorly written question... First of all, and of least importance, "C" should not be on that exam. Any student who ticked that box should be shot and kicked out of school.

Second: "E" is redundant. First of all, "C" is not relevant to the question, and therefore cannot be represented in the "All the Above" category. Secondly, If we eliminate "C" as an illegitimate question, then "E" itself becomes redundant as "D" includes the remaining answers.

I would argue this with your teacher and have him give you the point for the question. That was an unfair and poorly written question.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:04 pm**

Scribs wrote:Sometimes it is best to conceed the point and get on the teachers good side instead of argueing.

You don't understand... I SPEND 5 MINUTES OVER THIS ONE PROBLEM! EVEN WROTE IT ON MY ARM! I WILL NOT CONCEED!!!!!!!!!! :evil:

He actually liked thought it was amusing though. He's a cool guy, real understanding and lax about these sort of things. He told me he enjoys a good challenge. (He is moderator of the debate team...)

Kale wrote:That's actually a very poorly written question... First of all, and of least importance, "C" should not be on that exam. Any student who ticked that box should be shot and kicked out of school.

Second: "E" is redundant. First of all, "C" is not relevant to the question, and therefore cannot be represented in the "All the Above" category. Secondly, If we eliminate "C" as an illegitimate question, then "E" itself becomes redundant as "D" includes the remaining answers.

I would argue this with your teacher and have him give you the point for the question. That was an unfair and poorly written question.

Ummm.. Kale... I hope you realize that I put that down because I didn't remember the original question...

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:09 pm**

Oh sure..... Spoil my fun!

FUN SPOILER!

No matter... Just be clear next time... I was kinda wondering what the heck that was doing there.... *whistles*

But my formula DOES work if you ever come across a question like that

.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:10 pm**

The problem with lit classes is that literature is all a matter of opinion. I've had my fair share of run-ins with lit teachers, especially since my mom *is* a lit teacher. I always had her proof my papers and stuff like that. You can't win every battle, unfortunately, but it's not always bad to stand up and say something. I've won a couple of times before.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:45 pm**

everdred12a wrote:The problem with lit classes is that literature is all a matter of opinion.

That's not entirely true, there are a lot of things concerning the material used in Literature classes which are definitely not a matter of opinion. But when it is a matter of opinion, usually it's an issue of which answer is good and which answer is better. And obviously, you're expected to put the one that is better.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:44 pm**

Dude. Your teacher should give you 5 points for writing a paper about why you were right. XD That's hilarious. I don't think I've ever seen so much trouble go into one point on a test. :lol:

Ooh, but Kale was right, to a point. D could have been ruled out completely anyways, because you can't say the answere was A and B AND all of the above. Still though...that's hilarious.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:14 pm**

lol. i once did this somthing similar for C++, but that teacher just loooked at my reasoning, saw it was irrefutable, and gave me the full point.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:12 pm**

dude... THATS THE BEST PAPER EVER! it made my day, and i loved the best buy analogy!

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:25 pm**

Its one thing to challenge English...now if you tried that in math...

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:38 pm**

Locke wrote:Its one thing to challenge English...now if you tried that in math...

I pointed an error one of the math teachers made in a lecture once. Most of the kids were like "whuh\\\???11? whut R u TaLkinNg about??//\\? jUst shuUt uuPpp"

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:48 pm**

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:You don't understand... I SPEND 5 MINUTES OVER THIS ONE PROBLEM! EVEN WROTE IT ON MY ARM! I WILL NOT CONCEED!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna have to echo that advice, MSP... There was a question on a quiz I took today that asked something I knew the correct answer to, but that was different from what the teacher wanted (as in, her answer and what was in the quiz conflicted with the book... It was a question regarding political ideologies, so I can't really talk about it here) Well, I had to concede it (thankfully I discovered what answer she wanted BEFORE the quiz, and answered her way on the quiz and got 100%) The solution is, as much as possible, know the right answer, but know what the teacher wanted me to say as well. I guess it's a matter of picking your battles.

On the other hand, it appears nothing bad came out of this, so whatever.

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:33 pm**

Actually, Jim does mention not wanting to have a family that is also enslaved. So your teacher was correct. (Jim doesn't have a family yet, but already he's thinking of their wellbeing.)

PostPosted: **Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:41 pm**

Are we going to see a alchemist duel between MSP and his English Teacher?

I can just see it now:

English Teacher: I will show you who is right. Because I'm the paper alchemist!

MSP: Well, I have a big pencil! Well, its not a big pencil, but I can poke small holes into your skin with it!

Wingzero22

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:20 am**

SirThinks2Much wrote:Actually, Jim does mention not wanting to have a family that is also enslaved. So your teacher was correct. (Jim doesn't have a family yet, but already he's thinking of their wellbeing.)

In chapter 8? Definately not chapter 8, yes he says so in another chapter, but a much later chapter.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:07 am**

I'm just glad you received a point. Most of the uptight powertrippers I had would have deducted one for challenging their authority. Perhaps this is a generational change, since I was in HS in the 70s.

To Bobtheduck. In a political class, the teacher is always right. It`s the nature of political classes. One of my more amusing experiences in college was taking Economics 101 from a member of the local Repulicans, and 105 from a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. I started voting Libertarian after those two were done.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:42 am**

I didn't vote last election, I went in for dental surgery instead. Much more fun.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:40 pm**

Bobtheduck wrote:I'm gonna have to echo that advice, MSP... There was a question on a quiz I took today that asked something I knew the correct answer to, but that was different from what the teacher wanted (as in, her answer and what was in the quiz conflicted with the book... It was a question regarding political ideologies, so I can't really talk about it here) Well, I had to concede it (thankfully I discovered what answer she wanted BEFORE the quiz, and answered her way on the quiz and got 100%) The solution is, as much as possible, know the right answer, but know what the teacher wanted me to say as well. I guess it's a matter of picking your battles.

On the other hand, it appears nothing bad came out of this, so whatever.

I never had liked that you have to go with the teacher's answer when you can support another.
If you can prove it then you should have a case,
Then again I dislike the post-modern mind set... but that is a long discusion we don't need to get into.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:49 pm**

Actually you should have compromised with the teacher as you never know when you might need his recommendation again some day.On the other hand the correct answer was F None of the Above or in the wise and sage words of Excel the correct answer was:A Tunafish!:)LOL!!!!:)
No,I shall be serious now and point out that if there are two answers that seem to both make sense the correct answer will always combine those two.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:05 pm**

I think that beign able to do this type of thing really depends on the type of teacher you appeal to as much as the subject, if not more so at times. I saw a Biology teacher give away points to people with obviously wrong answers who could play a game of slight-of-hand with words, and I had an English teacher who was more than willing to listen to students argue their answers, only to decisively tell them that they were wrong, why they were wrong, and then not give them any points (It may seem strange, but I actually liked the English teacher alot more than the Bio teacher). Since it sounds like you were reasonable and educated about it (and you and your teacher had a sense of humor), I say Bravo! But, do realize that most teachers (in my experience) aren't as reasonable or won't take the time.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:35 pm**

Puritan wrote:I think that beign able to do this type of thing really depends on the type of teacher you appeal to as much as the subject, if not more so at times. I saw a Biology teacher give away points to people with obviously wrong answers who could play a game of slight-of-hand with words, and I had an English teacher who was more than willing to listen to students argue their answers, only to decisively tell them that they were wrong, why they were wrong, and then not give them any points (It may seem strange, but I actually liked the English teacher alot more than the Bio teacher). Since it sounds like you were reasonable and educated about it (and you and your teacher had a sense of humor), I say Bravo! But, do realize that most teachers (in my experience) aren't as reasonable or won't take the time.

Oh yeah, you definately nailed it Puritan. Thats pretty much how it is

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:40 pm**

Yeah, I know for a fact that if I tried to pull that with my criminal law professor, I'd likely not only get the points but a bumped up letter grade as well.

That aside, I seriously see no fault in your logic, MSP. It's just the teacher. :p

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:46 pm**

dont give in if your right just tell the boss

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:47 pm**

that hapened to me I got detention but i got my points back in the end

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:48 pm**

Ryan, you are one of the few people I know who would actually sit down and right a paper on why you should have gotten a certain answer correct on an english test.

PostPosted: **Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:54 pm**

I had moderate success pleading my case to instructors using this method:

"I don't really care about missing this question, but I got this questions wrong, I think, because I misunderstood what you were asking. In the future, you may want to word the question in a way that makes your intentions more clear. I recommend 'blah blah, whatever' instead."

I used to get more free points that way then I can count. Just a thought. If you really feel it's the case, tell the instructor - don't try to argue for your point back. They have to deal with that day in and day out.

PostPosted: **Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:44 am**

I don't know if this is a correct memory as it happened over 30 years ago in Junior High,but one day we got our history tests back and then the teacher noted that there were other possible answers in the book so I kept going up until I got 100% since all the answers I had were in fact correct.But as I said I don't know if I remember it right or not has it happened over 30 years ago.
:dance:

CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I Challenged My English Teacher!

I Challenged My English Teacher!