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Question...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:57 pm
by CephasWhite
I was watching Cardcaptors and I notice there are some things in there that are based on Christianity like the Cross emblem on the students uniforms, backpacks, coats, etc.

Is Cardcaptors a Christian Allegory? Because also they talk about the light and the darkness, and other sorts of things related to Christianity, like Lord of the Rings. There are angels in the show too.

Another one is Sakura resembling the verse in the Bible "a small child shall lead them". I do not remember where the verse is but it is there.

[spoiler]
I also saw Sakura wearing a crucifix in one of the episodes.[/spoiler]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:20 pm
by Raiden no Kishi
Hmm...I doubt it, considering that Japan isn't a highly Christianity-open nation, but they do seem to use some Christian imagery in anime.

But then, I haven't seen CCS, I'm just running on what you've told me.

Rai

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:08 pm
by CephasWhite
Raiden no Kishi wrote:But then, I haven't seen CCS, I'm just running on what you've told me.

Rai


:shady:

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:45 am
by termyt
It's doubtful that there's an intentional Christian meaning behind Carcaptors. The ladies of CLAMP like to use Christian imagery, and they seem to like to explore many of the same topics as we do as Christians, but they don't appear to be Christians themselves, especially when you see some of their other works.

However, I could be unfairly lumping all of the CLAMP ladies into one pile.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:12 am
by RoyalWing
[spoiler="about Card Captor Sakura"] Considering there is all the re-incarnation and magic etc. included in the series (alot of which they cut out from english version) I don't think they really try to put Christianity in it that much~ But I did remember when Eli said he was practising a piano song, for the Church in Christmas. I think he said something like "Christmas is special for those people/at the church" I don't remember very well. Maybe, CLAMP is trying to build respect for Christianity? I think that would be very nice of them. ^-^[/spoiler]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:27 am
by Mangafanatic
DOn't get me started on allegory. . .


Okay, too late. I'm a writter and it discourages me to no end when people see allegory under ever leaf. Allegory is when you take a story and just plug in other names. It's the same story, just a different setting. I'd say cardcaptors in definitely not an allegory.

As we all know, Japanese Animators and intranced with the ideas and symbols of religion and they embrace them whole heartedly. They embrace all of them. Hindu, buddist, shinto, doesn't matter.

In the end, I think allegory or not, comes down to the artist's intent. SO I guess we may never know, but I'd be inclined to say it's not allegorical.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:32 am
by CephasWhite
Mangafanatic wrote:DOn't get me started on allegory. . .


Okay, too late. I'm a writter and it discourages me to no end when people see allegory under ever leaf. Allegory is when you take a story and just plug in other names. It's the same story, just a different setting. I'd say cardcaptors in definitely not an allegory.


:eyebrow: Wait a minute, an allegory is not just plugging in names and have a different settings. An allegory is where you have a story and the characters or events symbolize something for example a Christian Allegory is the characters and events that symbolize characters and events from the Bible. No offense Mangafanatic but you were kind of way off...*shrugs* sorry.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:31 am
by Ashley
Granted, I haven't seen the show, but it's very common in anime (among other media) to make heavy use of Christian symbolism or themes. This doesn't make it an allegory though. To me, an allegory is a parable--the creators had a specific goal (in this case to spread the gospel) from day one and are using the media as a way to tell this goal. From what I know in my experience with other titles, 90% of the time they merely make use of recognizable symbols (crosses are good, horns are bad, etc. ) to represent and identify good forces verses bad forces, or they use common themes (love, sacrifice, redeemption) that yes, are central to Christianity, but are not exclusive to it.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:59 pm
by Xavier249
CephasVI wrote: I was watching Cardcaptors and I notice there are some things in there that are based on Christianity like the Cross emblem on the students uniforms, backpacks, coats, etc.
hmm. . . I think you may have figured this out by now but just because something has christian symbolism is present doesn't make it good or christian. Heck I have even heard that some of the playboy girls wear crucifixes. . . . .

CephasVI wrote:Is Cardcaptors a Christian Allegory? Because also they talk about the light and the darkness, and other sorts of things related to Christianity, like Lord of the Rings. There are angels in the show too.
Tolkien just rolled over in his grave. He often spoke of the fact that his was not an allegory. The reason it had themes related to christiantity or more likely Catholicism is because he was catholic. This happens often, it is called the authors personality showing through in his work.

Look also to what mangafanatic wrote. Although an allegory isn't quite what she said, it is close.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:04 am
by Jasdero
Ah, I have a suitable example for this. I know someone who's a complete atheist, but she always wears a necklace of the crucifix because "it's pretty," according to her. In other words, this show, "Card Captors Sakura," could just be using a symbol they find appealing. But in all honesty, I don't know. I've never seen the show, and come to think of it, I don't intend to.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:01 am
by termyt
We could be over simplifying, too. Many of the Japanese have a great love or romance toward American life, which Christianity is a big part (especially if you don't live here and aren't aware of our political struggles). So they like to adopt American symbols and such into their art. Also, the Japanese tend to be very accepting of all religions - taking what they want and discarding the rest. They routinely blend Shintoism, Buddhism, and Christianity in their every day lives. It's difficult for many Japanese to comprehend that Christianity is an exclusive religion - one that requires you to worship one God and only one God.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:10 am
by CephasWhite
How often do you see an anime where the main character, who has the characteristics of a Christian but you do not really know, wear the crucifix, or how often do you hear an anime talk about playing a song for the church at Christmas?

Of course, do we really know what the people on the other side of this earth are thinking? I guess, who really knows? Maybe they put in things like that for some reason and maybe they put those things there for no reason.

Who knows, I guess...

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:45 pm
by Xavier249
Trust me, that is all that it is in there for. I have read all the manga and seen most of the series. :)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:54 pm
by Aka-chan
You guys seemed to have covered it pretty well, but I'll just add one thing. One thing that makes me overall sure that CCS isn't an allegory is that there's no hugely defined sense of good and bad. Sakura faces challenges from the cards, but they're not bad, they're just doing what they're made to do and are a bit out of control. She faces challenges from, say, Yue and Eriol as well, but they're not bad, either; it's all about proving herself. The Bible, on the other hand, is very clear about good and evil, and that's a pretty important part in a Christian allegory.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:44 pm
by CephasWhite
Hm!...Good point Aka-chan.:thumb: