Is it ever okay to lie?

[Haibane Shadsie]

*Sigh*

I think perhaps some of my problems in life stem from my being too honest. People don't want the truth. They want a pretty little lie, and if you tell the truth, you tend not to be liked.

So far... well, I'm honest... and I worry if I'm going to get anywhere in life.

You see... I was just filling out an online job application for the local Blockbuster video. I tell you, I need a job... a job, a job, any paid job. I've had it down in the Prayer forum for quite a while, along with my depression.

It's annoying just how perfect most places want their new hires. It's like the military. You have one little flaw, and they reject you.

I answered the "have you ever been fired from a job for absenteeism" question honestly. I'm ashamed to say that I have. So, I'm going through the application, and right after that page, I get a "You don't meet our qualifications right now, send in a new application in 90 days.". I KNOW it's because of that question.

Sometimes, on job applications... I'll fudge just a little with my work history... I definitely don't volunteer information which I feel is unecessary.

For the most part... I'm honest, though. I'm a person with flaws and not a perfect work past. I was always good in school, I just suck at real life/the real world.

Also... I was thinking about this today: The head of my writer's club, a CHRISTIAN writer's club... who has suffered through depression and recovered, she told me about mine, that perhaps I should "pretend that everything's alright"... put forth a front to people that everything's alright with me, and pretend that I'm happy for myself. So far, I haven't been able to do that, at least not very much. I'm keeping myself from being wretched all the time now by trying to do something productive every day (also a suggestion from her, and from others, and from my online friend, Jammer, who's had problems but is now pretty happy most of the time). But... I'm wondering if the "pretending everything's alright" might work.

Though, I don't think I can successfully do that. I've never been good at "wearing a mask", so to speak, in public. I've been told that it is a problem in my life.

Still... I see the "pretending everything is alright" as a form of self-deception, a lie. I'm... honest. I really don't like to lie.

I want, if you will, your opinions as fellow Christians on this:

Is it okay to lie in these situations? Is it okay to lie on applications and at interviews to get a job? Is it okay to lie to myself to try to cure myself of emotional problems?

I'm just wondering if I am going to get ANYWHERE in life if I remain honest.

[Twilly Spree]

You gotta lie to your grandma when she gets you the fuzzy teddy bear nightgown when you're....19.

Other than that...um I'll get back to you tomorrow. Sorry, I'm tired.

[Stephen]

I think as hard as it is...it is better to be honost. God will honor your honosty. When I was looking for a job...an issue came up...working on Sundays. Which I do not do...(no need to debate over it just a personal thing) So many places would have me in...heck one place had me talking to a manager...had the job, and as I was leaving I was asked. By the way, you work sundays right? It was so hard...because I needed money...real bad...but I said to myself...if I go against how I feel...God will not honor that...sure I may get the job...but what is to say a better one won't come. In the end I found a place that is ok with my Sunday issue...but what I am trying to say is...don't cut corners...I know its tempting...but just be honost and be clear with them. Plus on most applications...they don't ask that question...but on ones that do...I would say its better to be honost. When it comes down to it..you can look in a mirror and know you were honost....am I making any sence?

[Haibane Shadsie]

Yeah, you are.

The Sunday issue never was one for me. My church always taught that "if you need the money and need to work, you can worship God anywhere, even at work." Of course, at my old "home" church, one of the congregation members was a physician who'd get paged to go deliever babies and stuff while in church sometimes. -Sometimes his need to work Sundays was an actual life-or-death issue. Thinking maybe my church just taught that way for his sake. Anything I would get certainly wouldn't be like that. Anyway, that's all personal conviction, and I understand not working on Sundays. I like to get Sundays off if I can, it's just not set in stone for me the same way it may be for you.

But.. the lying on applications and at interviews about my work history is a big issue to me. I really dislike lying. I certanly will not volunteer information, but if asked directly...

Still, I wonder if I've just dug myself into a hole so deep that God doesn't care anymore.. that he's just going to let me stay in the hole.. or keep on spiraling downward. I'm thinking right now, that it might be nice one of these days to wake up dead, so I wouldn't have to worry about issues like this.

[Stephen]

Never ever wish that you were dead...as crappy as life can be somtimes...that should never be a wished or hoped for option. I understand the no job thing...my whole family does really...my parents and I all waited on the Lord for jobs for...man...Mom and Dad almost 2 and a half years I think. Ate up most the savings...stuff like that...they kept there faith....even though mine took quite a nose dive for a while...They have jobs now...albeit nasty ones for people there age....the point I am getting at is, as clicheish as it sounds...God does care. Through every situation somthing comes from it...I have no idea why somtimes things drag on...as the few that I have let close enough to me know...my family went through some serious crap...and there was a lot of time I found myself angry with God and angry with life in general...but don't focus on that stuff...life is far to short to let yourself be eaten with stress or regret...try to take each day as it comes...and enjoy the small things we do have....I hope I am not sounding hypocritcal here...I just feel that I have a good idea what your talking about/going through. 3 years my family dealt with a "valley" 3 long years...I hope that perhaps somthing that can be gained from that hellish time is that I can give hopefull advise. Things will get better...just try not to let things get you so down.

[Haibane Shadsie]

I kinda feel worthless right now, though, like I'm not being good enough for God to do anything for me... not "behaving".

Like... I didn't go to church today. I woke up too late. I took sleep aids last night to get to sleep, and slept in. I've been sleeping into the mornings a lot lately. I haven't been to any morning church in over a month.. the night church I usually go to... decided not to go because lately, they're doing political stuff, not sermon stuff.. and I've never been a part of that church enough to get involved in the politics. Truly, I haven't felt "at home" at a church for about 3 years... my my old church I went after I first accepted the Lord, the church I "grew up in" for about 6 years disbanded due to finanical problems. I even felt like an outsider there, a lot. It's the story of my life... always an outsider.

I'm wondering if I'll become so worthless, God will just strike me down...

I feel like... out of this.. I'll either go up, or I'll keep spiraling down to self-destruction, and if I die, maybe that will be okay, too. I don't know. I don't want to die, not really.

Heh... Red Ninja, as far as relative gifts... all my grandparents are dead. All the gifts I've ever gotten from relatives, I've actually liked! I'd reject footie-pjamas, though. I've always hated those things... I remember hating them even when I was a little kid... 5 years old when they were appropriate wear. They were always too hot and the plasticy foot bottoms made my feet sweat.

[inkhana]

Well put, Shatterheart. I agree...compromising here will not help in the long run, as much as you think it might help now. I know it's very difficult...waiting on God's timing is one of the most difficult things to do. But you will be met with great rewards if you stick with it! The thing about obeying God's word...just because it doesn't seem to be helping right now doesn't mean it won't help in the future. I've had some instances in my own life...I didn't understand "why" but later I came to see the bigger picture surrounding a group of events and I was glad. What is very sad is that also, at one point, I considered killing myself...but then I found out why I was going through what I was...and suddenly it all made sense and I didn't want to anymore.

Do not doubt that God has something awesome in store for you. You're a talented young lady and there are so many ways that He can use you as a tool to help others, it boggles the mind.

[uc pseudonym]

Those already present in this thread have said perhaps more than I can. I have but one thing to add.

This is an extremely small comfort. Extremely. Hear it out, however.

Do you remember issues that upset you as a child? Perhaps someone else took something of yours? I know, for example, that I was infuriated when in second grade I was wrongfully accused by another and my computer privalges were revoked for some time. Looking back on that, I can honestly say that it didn't really matter.

At the time it hurt. It mattered then. From this position, the pain isn't so deep. I'm glad I didn't retaliate. But this causes another thought: could there be a time, an eternity away from now, that every trial I go through will feel like a problem of a child? Compared to heaven, perhaps things of this world don't matter so much anymore.

[Saint Kevin]

I think perhaps some of my problems in life stem from my being too honest. People don't want the truth. They want a pretty little lie, and if you tell the truth, you tend not to be liked.

You're absolutely right. The way of truth is always the harder route, but I know it is one God will bless, if not in this life, then in eternity.

Sometimes, on job applications... I'll fudge just a little with my work history... I definitely don't volunteer information which I feel is unnecessary.

I have too. Being a convicted felon (from a stupid compromise with peer pressure I made as a young teenager) has made it nearly impossible for me to get a job if I do otherwise. I've assumed (or even rationalize to myself) that because one job application specifically says to ignore expunged or sealed convictions, that I should just answer no to the felony question on all of them. This is something I realize I cannot do anymore, like pirating music or software. I would go so far as to say that because God is more concerned with the heart than with being technically in the right, that misleading or evasive answers are just as bad as outright lies.

Still... I see the "pretending everything is alright" as a form of self-deception, a lie. I'm... honest. I really don't like to lie.

You are right, it is self-deception. It is a bit schizophrenic in my opinion, to try and act as if everything is normal when you are depressed. It is also very taxing on your psyche. I speak from experience. I won't lie to you all when I tell you that I have been (and still am, really) depressed for a long time, evne after being saved. I long to rekindle the joy of my salvation. But that's another thread I guess.

Still, I wonder if I've just dug myself into a hole so deep that God doesn't care anymore.. that he's just going to let me stay in the hole.. or keep on spiraling downward. I'm thinking right now, that it might be nice one of these days to wake up dead, so I wouldn't have to worry about issues like this.

God does care for you, absolutely, no matter how deep a hole you may have dug yourself. Remember, God loved us first, before the foundation of the world, and chose us (for whatever reason, I sure can't figure it out) to be the objects of His love and affection. Don't ever think that God's love is dependent on you. If that were the case, none would be saved at all. Also I can sympathize with your wanting to wake up dead, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Paul shared your dilemma, and wanted to be with the Lord, but at the same time, he knew that God had put him on earth for a purpose, and would only take him out of it when His purposes were fulfilled, in His time. Don't take this to mean that I advocate suicide. By no means is this ever an appropriate response to our depression, but I'd be lying if I said I had never wished to be in heaven right now. Be comforted in this Haibane: God does have a purpose for you, even if you can't see it now. Stay faithful, and find other believers (not just on CAA, but that's definitely a start) to help you bear your load when it gets to be too much. That is why we are a body, because we all need to lift up one another, but also need to be lifted up. As far as I know there are no exceptions to this principle. We all need each other.

Haibane I will say this. The reason I like reading your posts, and the reason I respect you so much is because you are honest, and you don't try and pretend everything is fine when it's not. That's far too easy to do on a forum like this. Still, I commend you for your honesty, and I want to tell you that you are not alone. I don't know if this is very comforting or not, but I truly know what you are feeling, and I am always comforted by Romans 8:28, because, like Inkhana said, I can see God's hand in retrospect, and that comforts me when I can't see it now.

I will pray for you Haibane, and I ask that you all pray for me too (for I am both jobless and depressed as well). Things will get better Haibane, you can count on it. I can't promise it will get better any time soon, but simply trust God that you will be better because of the trials you endure. Stand firm, and follow your convictions to remain honest, Haibane. And for what it's worth, all cliches and platitudes aside, I love you all, my brethren. You have truly been a blessing to me these past few months.

[cbwing0]

I think as hard as it is...it is better to be honost.

Of course it is better to do the right thing to begin with. That way you have nothing to lie about. Anyway...

Still... I see the "pretending everything is alright" as a form of self-deception, a lie. I'm... honest. I really don't like to lie.

You are right, it is self-deception. It is a bit schizophrenic in my opinion, to try and act as if everything is normal when you are depressed.

I think we need to stop patting ourselves on the back for being outsiders, because it is extremely counterproductive, and subtly expressed in these thoughts.

I realize that you are depressed, but this sort of thing will not help.

[SwordSkill]

uhh....i'm not sure if the thread is about the honesty/lying thing or the depression thing, so i'll just stick to the honesty/lying thing.

I think perhaps some of my problems in life stem from my being too honest. People don't want the truth. They want a pretty little lie, and if you tell the truth, you tend not to be liked..

So far... well, I'm honest... and I worry if I'm going to get anywhere in life.

...I have always assumed that to be part and parcel of being Christian. The Bible does say that we will be persecuted for our beliefs]expected[/I] that your being a Christian will hinder you from many of the wordly comforts...that's the entire point. We're a changed people, and we don't belong in this world. Being a Christian is not easy and it takes sacrifice on our part. We are, after all, in the world, but what makes us special is that we are not of the world.

Is it okay to lie in these situations? Is it okay to lie on applications and at interviews to get a job?

I don't want to sound moralistic, but lying on applications and interviews for jobs is really a far cry from lying to your grandma when she gets you the fuzzy teddy bear nightgown when you're 19, to borrow Red Ninja's example. You must understand how important an impact and/or ramifications your lie is going to cause, and for this case, the difference of your lying or not will result in you either getting a job or not. Is a job of huge importance? Yes, because it brings you money at the very basic level. So following that logic, let's say if you lied on that application and you got the job because of that, then your lie just bought you something that is in fact a direct source of money. I don't know about others, but I would personally find it rather uncomfortable that one reason of my getting money on a regular basis is because I lied.

Is it okay to lie to myself to try to cure myself of emotional problems?

I find this more of a psychological question than a moralistic one. First of all, how can one lie to oneself when s/he is actually aware of it? The point of lying is to tell someone something that isn't the truth, but the thing is, you DO know the truth, so what is the point of lying to yourself when you can't be deceived?

Anyway. Just my 2 cents. I'm sorry if I sounded preachy or high-hat or very harsh...when I write about serious things, my tone in writing gets to be as serious also, and it sometimes does give the appearance of a scathing reproach. ^^;; Which wasn't something I meant to do, mind. Just giving my opinion, that's all. I am, after all, just as much as a sinner as the next person. And I watch fansubs too. XD Peace.

[wiggins]

Everyone's pretty much given good replies and said everything I could possibly think of. I really agree with Shatterheart. Lying is definitely not good, but God knows how many times I've fallen on the issue of lying. But lying is not good, and I too have to work on that area as well. Just don't lose hope in God. I know its sometimes or even often tough, but He's there, and He loves us and cares for us. He will see us through our trials. I'm pretty sure He said somewhere in His Word, that He will be with us through our trials...Hmmm...that's all I can think of to say... at least for now. If I think of anything else or feel led to post something else, I will. I hope that encourages you.

[wiggins]

Everyone's pretty much given good replies and said everything I could possibly think of. I really agree with Shatterheart. Lying is definitely not good, but God knows how many times I've fallen on the issue of lying. But lying is not good, and I too have to work on that area as well. Just don't lose hope in God. I know its sometimes or even often tough, but He's there, and He loves us and cares for us. He will see us through our trials. I'm pretty sure He said somewhere in His Word, that He will be with us through our trials...Hmmm...that's all I can think of to say... at least for now. If I think of anything else or feel led to post something else, I will. I hope that encourages you.

Ack! I didn't mean to double post, but I seem to have clicked a few buttons wrongly... Sorry!

[HikariChan]

the only time i lie is when i dont want to get in trouble^^

[Saint Kevin]

Off-Topic: In retrospect, I got pretty off-topic with the depression thing, and potentially could have taken this thread in a direction I didn't want it to go with some of my comments. I apologize. I will try to stay more on topic in the future, and either keep some of my comments to myself, or post them in another thread. EDIT: Or PM's, those work too.

[HikariChan]

lol

[JediSonic]

Suicide is never the best option. See, that's the beauty of having free will! There is always some good, some great, some small, that you can do at any given time in this world. You could write a christian manga, you could help a friend in need, you could help a total stranger in need, for that matter, and get involved with community service. You go outside, smell the flowers, and enjoy God's creation, you could sit around inside and play video games (one of my personal favorites ). If have the money, you could take a plane to China and preach the gospel until you can't preach no more, and that would still be a lot better than commiting suicide.

My point is, God has given you a lot of talent, Haibane, and a lot of other gifts, and part of each person's job here on earch is to use those gifts to the very best of our ability, for the glory of God and the good of the fellow man.

In other words, a human being can never ever ever be totally worthless, certainly not in God's eyes. Even if you broke all your arms and legs and had to lie in bed all day every day, you can still pray and praise God, which is basically why He created us in the first place

So pretend you're dory (see sig)

[Icarus]

Hale be thou, Shadsie.

On the honesty thing, on most applications that I've seen, there is a little sentence in the fine print stating that if you deliberately provide false information, you will be fired.

Yeah, there can be a rather large discrepancy between honesty and what people want to hear. There can be a large difference between honesty and what you want to say. In the end, there are a few reasons to be truthful, not least of which is the commandment against false testimony. You have less to remember and you won't get in trouble if the truth comes out, as you have already told it.

God bless.

[Haibane Shadsie]

Well, it's pretty much what I wanted to hear. I don't want to lie on applications. I want to be honest, yet, I know if I took this question to a secular message board, everyone would tell me to go against my convictions.

I wanted Christian opinions... wondering if I'm being a fool for being honest... wanted fellow Christians to tell me that I wasn't. Thanks.

[Fsiphskilm]

Shadsie You have no

[Haibane Shadsie]

Huh? Cosplay.com? Am I on there?

I only cosplayed once... at Anime Expo, and I do not sew... a friend made my costume. Are you sure you aren't mistaking me for someone else?

[Fsiphskilm]

Nope It was you alright.

[Da Rabid Duckie]

I've got a lil encouragement on the job part. A few years ago, I worked at a place that a good friend that had recently gotten saved applied at. I had seen the fruit in this guy's life, and knew that his conversion was real. However, he had been convicted for something, and had just gotten off of his house arrest so the manager was worried. Fortunately, I was one of the people that my boss trusted the most, and he hired the guy on my recommendation. He turned out to be one of the best employees the store ever had, and still works there seasonally. But what I'm getting at is this: I saw the Godliness that he showed in his life, and I asked my boss to go past that offense and trust who he was now. Don't give up on jobs just because you messed up somewhere else. If you've repented of it, just seek the Lord's face and as you get closer to Him parts of His character will show through you, and prove your past work history to be just that (history :p).

[VEGETA]

This is a rather simplistic answer but...

There is honor in honesty. There is dishonor is lieing.

I live a very simple way. Death before dishonor.

I know that may seem...unusual or wierd but it works for me and has always lead me down the right path.

[JediSonic]

Vegeta, the main thing reason I would never say 'death before dishonor' (crap I just said it!) is because everyone's idea of honor is a little bit different. sometimes a lot-a-bit different, or even stupidly different.

[VEGETA]

Well thats you, not me. Thats how I live. I never said anyone else had to live that way.

[Michael]

Because of the Ninth commandment, I don't think you should put forward anything that isn't true.

[EireWolf]

Is it okay to lie to myself to try to cure myself of emotional problems?

I heard about an interesting scientific study. Apparently, smiling and laughing (even when you don't really feel happy) change your brain chemistry slightly. They create endorphins, which are the feel-good chemicals your brain releases when, for example, you see the person you love most. It feels good to smile. So, while I do not think you should lie to yourself about how you feel, perhaps you can try self-medicating, the natural way, and smile even when you don't feel like it. I've given this advice before to a friend who was very depressed. Of course I wasn't advising him to lie and "put on a happy face" for the benefit of anyone else, least of all me. I was simply advising him to try to make himself actually feel happier. It may feel fake at first, but it may just do some good.

As they say, laughter is the best medicine.

[ZiP]

It's way better to be honest... umless your in a situation where you have to go somwhere with ayour wife who is pretty and people will kill you for her, then you could say she was your sister. wait a minute!

[EireWolf]

Yeah, but Abraham got in trouble for that one.... and he still told the same lie twice!

But then there's the story of Rahab the prostitute... (see Joshua 2 and 6) She is commended in Hebrews 11:31 and James 2:25, because she lied to protect the spies in Jericho. That's a bit different from lying on a job application though.