"Thou Shalt not let a witch live"??

[KOBUSHInoTENSHU]

I dont really understand it cause im debating with a girl on my forum and she put that verse in. I dont kno what to say cause im not sure

[CobaltAngel]

That's not even a verse, lol. How about, "Thou shall not KILL"? Could it just be she's a troll trying to ruffle your feathers?

[Ashley]

I've never heard such a verse, but it could be possible it's a reference to levitical code, the same as restrictions on your bondservants and what to do if your bull gores someone. If that's the case it needs to be taken in context--while we don't live under levitical law anymore, it doesn't mean we need to totally disregard the laws. They have a much-needed place in the Bible, but that's a different debate. The simplest thing to do is to ask her to cite the verse itself, and then you'll know for sure if it's some part of the Bible she's taking out of context, or if she's just making it up.

[Technomancer]

It's a real verse from the KJV and is taken from the ancient Mosaic laws. Taken as is it is not especially different from laws against "black magic" that existed in other societies at that time. However, the fact is that the translators made an error in their choice of word; scholars today regard the original Hebrew word as meaning "poisoner" rather than witch. Granted, there was likely to have been some association of poisons and hallucinagens with witchcraft or sorcery in those days (or at least people's perceptions of it).

[Cap'n Nick]

I happened to come across this verse last week as I reread the books of the Torah in preparation for seminary exams. The verse she is referring to is Exodus 22:18 - "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." As Ashley mentioned, it is indeed part of the mandates given to Israel in the desert and should be interpretted in this light.

The primary purposes of these laws and the Levitical code were to guide the people of Israel in leading a life pleasing to God, but also to set apart the nation as God's throne and as his emissary to the world. Great care was taken to preserve ceremonial purity so that the nation of Israel could be a place fit for habitation by the presence of God himself.

Witchcraft constitutes a reliance upon supernatural powers other than God. In a society that enjoyed the manifest presence of God and depended directly on him for physical sustenance and safety, such an act was nothing short of treason and had to be decisively expurgated from the community so that God's wrath would not fall upon it, as it did on several occasions when the Israelites found that God would tolerate nothing short of total devotion from his chosen people. The nature of withcraft coupled with the supreme need for purity in the community explains the severity of this mandate.

As for what this means for us today, I don't think we should interpret it as a call to revive witch burning. While God does demand that we cleanse our hearts, we are no longer held to the demands of ritual cleanliness. However, we must remember that witchcraft still constitutes rejection of God as the ultimate provider and should not be practiced by those wishing to live in a manner pleasing to him.

[sanitysux13]

Maybe she's referencing Monty Python??? I mean, I was turned into a newt once, but I got better, so no hard feelings

[Archan]

*Takes time to coach himself......"No debating Archan, no debating..... "*

Well, personally I like to believe the times for witch hunting have long since past...... However Ashley is right as well as Cap'n Crack (Nice to meet you by the way) about the law being found in context of the levitical law, and the law (Not the specifical law being discussed here....the overal laws) was addressed by Jesus Himself as a curse, but thats kind of straddeling the fence of theological debate.

So in that case, if the person your debating KOBUSHInoTENSHU is looking for a justification to kill witches, just tell him/her if they have no sin to cast the first stone. It may sound as if it doesn't apply, but it does. Adultary and harolts or any kind of porsitiution was as worthy of death as any kind of witchcraft during the old testament law, but Jesus addressed that that time had passed, and that none of us are without sin or worthy enough to put judgment into our own hands.....

On the other hand if your friend is accussing us of witchhunting, assure him/her that we do not witchhunt, nor support it, that we all fully acknowledge that fact that no one is without sin and all are equally given the choice of God or continuing with our sinful nature.

Hope this heps out some....lemme know how that debate goes
God Bless,
Archan

[crossalchemist]

[quote="Technomancer"]However, the fact is that the translators made an error in their choice of word]
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree on the mistranslation point. In the NASB, currently the world's most accurate translation of the Bible, it says sorceress. However, I echo what everyone else has said so far. This is the Law, but you are no longer under the Law if you have been saved because you have been forgiven of your crimes and no longer have to face the punishment for them. And those who already have this forgiveness are not charged with the extermination of those who don't, but rather to help those who don't have it. This has lead me to actually know, and believe it or not, become friends with a witch and help lead her to Christ.

[Archan]

Linwood:

*Jumps off topic* Groovey Spiderman avatar *Jumps back on topic*

God Bless,
Archan

[KOBUSHInoTENSHU]

O! Sry guys. She is a Wiccan tho. She put that post there

[Cap'n Nick]

On the other hand if your friend is accussing us of witchhunting, assure him/her that we do not witchhunt, nor support it, that we all fully acknowledge that fact that no one is without sin and all are equally given the choice of God or continuing with our sinful nature.

Right on, and nice to meet you, too, by the way. I hate it when people use Levitical law to argue that Christians are cruel and unreasonable. Whether they are ignorant of the basic Christian concepts of law and gospel or simply choosing to ignore them, it doesn't bode well with me. While I can't pretend to know the views of all Wiccans I can say that the ones I have experienced often substituted this flawed understanding of the Bible for an argument that the God of the Bible is flawed.

For the sake of the discussion, I will also mention this, not because any of the posts here indicate a warped view of law and gospel but because it has not yet been stated explicitly and is very important to remember when considering questions such as this: freedom from Levitical law does not mean that all behavior is now acceptable to God. Antinomianism can be just as dangerous to us as Christians as legalism.

I believe that witchcraft is not acceptable as it is in a very real sense a rejection of the power of God. We may now be free to show mercy to those who practice it but that does not mean we should practice it ourselves. Embracing its followers, though, as linwood has shown, is another matter entirely.

[Technomancer]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree on the mistranslation point. In the NASB, currently the world's most accurate translation of the Bible, it says sorceress.

My mistake, it's the NT that contains the erroneous translation regarding withcraft, not the OT.

[agasfas]

I don't think it says anywhere to kill witches, but God condemns serveral things such as witchcraft, sexual immoralities, drunkeness etc and how these people have no place in heaven or the presents of GOd. Physically they will live on earth, but remain spiritually dead to say the least.

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[Hitokiri]

I don't think Christians should be able to kill anyone unless told so/given by God. For instance, the government condeming people to death. The government is God's judgement through mankind (or that's how it was orginated as). He gave the government his law.

But I don't agree with killing heathens, witches, etc. in the name of God. That's going back tot he Crusaders and thier way of thinking.

[Slater]

hmm... Exodus 22 says not to suffer a witch to live. I suppose this makes sense in context; those who acted as medians between them and the spirits would be particularly dangerous to God's people after they left Egypt... heck, they're dangerous today. Look at all the call-a-psychic stuff going on nowadays. But I don't think that we, living on the other chronological side of Jesus' sacrifice, should go out and kill any witches we so happen to come across if that's the implication your friend is making.

[JediSonic]

Exactly.. what ever happened to "hate the sin, love the sinner"? This philosophy that Christians do and should adopt today really only got going after the OT. It is always better to convert than to kill. Always.

[termyt]

Cap'n Crack nailed it well. The Jews were set apart as a priesthood to the rest of the world - those who had the best, most direct access to the living God. As such, nothing within their society that was contrary to God could be tolerated period. I would note that working on the Sabbath also carried a death sentence. God's Word and their priestly nature demanded nothing less.

That has all been said and quite well in this thread, so I'll instead focus on what the levitical laws mean to us today as Christians.

We are the holy priesthood to the world today, much as the BC Jews were intended to be in antiquity. The law outlines largely two things. First is how to live in a manner that is pleasing to God. These are the laws given to the Jews. The second is how to regain God’s favor if (and when) the law is broken. These are the sacrificial laws. The law teaches us that our God has high standards and nothing short of those standards is acceptable. Since we can not meet those standards, we must sacrifice the best, most valuable things we own to Him to signify He is more important to us than those things.

The law is very useful in teaching us to live in a way that is pleasing to God and the kind of sacrifice required to sanctify us – cleanse us of our sins. That sacrifice was made for us by Jesus on the cross. A more perfect and complete sacrifice can not be made, so we no longer need to sacrifice animals or valuables to Him. Instead, we have been bought – everything we have, everything we own, everything we are belongs to Him. We no longer make annual sacrifices of our best, we make a life long sacrifice of everything we are.

As for putting this or that offender to death, that is not our place. Judaism was more than just a religion – it was a form of government. Governments have God ordained rights and responsibilities to protect its citizens and maintain order. The Jews were commanded by God to create a society with these rules and punishments. Christianity, however, is not meant to be a form of government. Since we are not a government, we do not have the God ordained right to inflict punishment on others. Instead, we are taught to confront anyone of us who is sinning. If the person refuses to change their ways, then they are to be removed from the church, but nowhere are we empowered to imprison, fine, or execute anyone for anything.

[KOBUSHInoTENSHU]

ok i understand now! thanx everyone!