Christian Advice Needed

[Griffin]

Hello!
I came here once before because I loved God and Anime.

Now: I have turned from God and persued the pleasures of the world to the point that I am no longer virgin.....

I need adice on how to get back to the right path.

My boyfriend and I need to learn more about a good, clean, christian relationship. Any good sites/books to read?

Should I marry the man I love, (after careful thought and prayer) at only 18?

Oh. And is there forgiveness for a christian who has had intercourse out of wedlock? Can there be a spiritual cleansing and a 'second virginity'?

[uc pseudonym]

It is very difficult to provide advice on this subject. There are others far more qualified than I to do so, and for that reason I moved back to my search of the forums. Something, however, moved me to post what I do have to share.

On getting back on the right path... I can only suggest focusing more solely on God. That, by itself, is completely ambiguous; what I mean is that you should try to keep other things out of mind as much as possible, and look at your life through the Godliest eyes you can manage. Then you can begin to rearrange things that will place you back on the path.

As for books and sites... without knowing your situation in more detail, I cannot with a clean conscience recommend anything.

Marraige... I would urge you not to. 18 is very, very young for such things. There are still changes you will go through that it would be best to wait out.

Regarding a second virginity: certainly. Remember that God's grace can cover all of our sins, no matter the variety or magnitude. The question is the condition of your heart, not your body.

[JediSonic]

God has the power to forgive anything. At 14 years of age, I wouldnt feel comfortable saying more than that.

[Lehn]

Read When God Writes Your Love Story: The Ultimate Approach to Guy/Girl Relationships by Eric Ludy & Leslie Ludy. I love that book. There's a few chapters about purity, but it's mostly about waiting for God's will when it comes to love instead of giving in to what feels good dating-wise. I hear Passion and Purity: Learning to Bring Your Love Life Under Christ's Controlby Elisabeth Elliot is good too, but I've never read it.

Ill pray for ya' and I hope that helps!

[Lochaber Axe]

As long as you are repentant, then God will cleanse you of your sins. You must realize that you will always have these temptations, maybe even more so in that you have had intercourse, but these feelings and temptations are fleeting. That is what you must learn to understand, that you do not need to have that kind of intimacy to feel close and love someone. It would be good if you did a thorough housecleaning of yourself. Ask Him to show you the sins that you have covered up that led to your backsliding.

Also remember this, David committed adultery and then murder because of lust, but God still called him a man after his own heart. No sin is greater than the sacrifice on Calvary.

EDIT: There is something else I wanted to say. Have a support group, people around you that will strengthen you when you start to fall. I wish I had such a group to help me through my own battles.

Lioness, I have a personal oath and vow of celibacy until marriage that I hold on when those temptations arise. That should be something that you have also. When you are with your boyfriend, that oath and vow should snap into your mind everytime you are tempted, and also deliver your thoughts and emotions to God. Give Him your weakness and He will make it into a strength.

[SManBeyond]

I was going to post something, but everyone else has said a lot.

The webmag Boundless has several articles on this subject, but I think this one might be the most appropriate.

Also, I have one question. Is your boyfriend a Christian?

Definitely go find an adult you trust to talk to about this, such as your pastor, and talk about all the issues you're dealing with.

[ClosetOtaku]

Lioness,

I agree with the advice of these other posts. Let the past rest in the arms of the Lord; you now need to focus on your future.

I believe your most difficult times in this regard are ahead of you. I believe you are sincere in your desires to remain pure. I would urge you to avoid any situations in which you and your boyfriend are tempted again. This may be very difficult. Regrettably, I speak from experience. Ask for God's help, and the help of Christian female friends whom you can trust and rely on.

Know that you are right in your desires to remain pure until you are married. You may not be able to see it now, but you will look back on your decision to commit yourself to purity years from now and know it was one of the best (and most mature) decisions you have ever made.

[true_noir_chloe]

Lioness, I haven't talked to you in a while, and I'm not sure you remember me. I'm the older woman/mom/wife, that had invited Tamahome to this site. Please pm me if you'd like to talk on this subject further. I don't think it would be appropriate to talk about your life here for all to see.

I think Lehn pointed out some great texts and overall, everyone has given good advice, especially of finding an older woman in your church whom you trust to discuss these things with - through the years I have had great comfort by older, more wiser women in my church. And in fact, this is very Biblical. Of course, make sure they are truly believers in the redemptive work of the cross of Christ and fully understand His mercy. I'll be happy to talk to you anytime via pm. ^__^

[Mave]

Dear Lioness,

I can understand your pain and guilt because that's exactly what I felt when my boyfriend and I did certain things we shouldn't have. I felt as if God would never sanction our relationship and I have now become "damaged goods", labeled by the world around us and even by fellow christians. It's a horrible scar and the guilt and shame consumes your mind 24/7. Good News, Lioness. God loves you two, forgives you when you repent, understands what you're going through and wants to take care of you two if you choose to let Him.

God carried me and my boyfriend through the stormy season of our relationship where we were 2 confused christians and didn't know where and how to set the limits on physical boundaries. It's never too late for God's Grace and Love.


I would have PMed you privately but I wish to share this to all other ladies of CAA since I am currently in a relationship and God amazingly has used this relationship to teach me many things. I therefore, have no regrets even if I don't end up marrying my boyfriend because God had a purpose for it.


*Brothers, there may be one or two things that you aren't proud of. But this is what my boyfriend tells me and I have found it to be true.

1) Identify the place, time and circumstances that gets you two tempted the most.

Place: Is it when you're together alone in a room? If so, don't ever get into such a situation. Get friends to be around you in a room or just hang out with each other in public places. I never stay in the same room with my boyfriend anymore because as we found, it was too "dangerous." Don't think you two can be strong enough to resist it. Flee from it whenever possible, no matter how inconvenient. I hate having to stay with my other gal friends when I could simply just stay over at his place in the same city. It's such a pain to drag myself all the other side of Chicago but you know what? Good News: It get easier the more times you practice this. It becomes second nature to avoid temptation and you will become stronger against it. It's worthed the inconvenience.

Time: Is it in the morning when you just wake up or at night when it's dark? Avoid each other at those times then.

Other circumstances: Watching a certain movie? Having a certain type of "talk"?

2) Ladies, take authority and say No. Support your man where he's weakest in

When I was dealing with this problem, I thought "My boyfriend is the leader in this relationship, I shall let him decide the physical boundaries as well. " Woa ho ho ho, big mistake. Don't misinterpret "submission", OK? For me, I just kept quiet while I let my boyfriend handle the battle himself and we've both fallen together. I don't know when but one day, I realized that it was my responsibility to do something (most probably words of wisdom from the Holy Spirit). Good news: God is awesome in the way that He created the woman to complement the man. Whether you admit it or not, the woman is stronger than the man when it comes to resisting sexual temptation and that's a battle strategy God intended. When your guy gets aroused (pardon me but let's be open about this), you gals have the responsibility to say "No" and get out from there! In general, women are less sexually active and it's easier for them to fight it. You must accept that role and be firm with your decision. Believe me, your Christian boyfriend will thank you later on. Mine has. Don't be worried that you'll upset your boyfriend. Think about whom you would rather upset, God, Almighty Creator & Life Giver or your boyfriend, a human being. So guys, trust your lady's judgment on this one and cooperate. When she says, "No", back off. She's trying to help you and you ought to take this chance to avoid falling to temptation.

3) Learn as much as you can about the nature of man and your boyfriend's tendencies.
I talk openly to my boyfriend about many things and sex is one of them. It's from him that I learn how sexually active guys are and how difficult it is for them to fight it. So I work out a strategy with him. "Ok, what tempts you and how can I help you reduce the temptation?" For example, if he finds low cut hip jeans distracting, I cooperate with him and don't wear that. It can even involve the way I sit or talk. We also discuss physical boundaries and make an agreement on that. I highly suggest that you and him define the limiting point as soon as possible, with you having more say because sometimes the guys can push the limit without realizing it's bad for him. And whenever he goes out of the limit, take your role again and remind him of the boundaries. I always say, "Hey, no touchy! Stop right there!" and (sorry guys) put him back at his place. In this area, I have no worries about having higher authority than the guy because I know I have to do it to please God.

4) Identify already-present sexual sins:
If you personally have unconfessed sexual sins such as pornography and masturbation, deal with it NOW. They indefinitely play a role in messing up your relationship and hinder you from pursuing any further attempts toward sexual purity. Communicate openly and come clean with each other about your personal sexual struggles. His personal sexual struggles are also your problems.

5) Find someone to be accountable for.
This is one of the hardest things because it's not easy to openly discuss something like this to anyone face to face. But it's also one of the most effective methods. Find another Christian sister to pray and watch out for you. The same goes for your boyfriend. He needs to find a Christian brother who can advise and check on him from time to time.

I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me to discuss anything further if you deem it necessary. I wish the best for you two, as God wills it. You and your boyfriend have my support and prayers, sister.

Should I marry the man I love, (after careful thought and prayer) at only 18?

Do you think God wants you to marry this particular guy and do you think God wishes the time to be now? That is the only question you and God have the answer to. In my frank opinion though, I'd rather not make such as a quick decision. Ask yourself, are you marrying because you're really ready for a commitment or for another personal reason, (ex. trying to cover the shame or your fears of losing him)?

Oh. And is there forgiveness for a christian who has had intercourse out of wedlock? Can there be a spiritual cleansing and a 'second virginity'?

Yes, there is. Just remember, your temptations are slightly different from those who have retained their virginity. There is definitely hope in Christ in all things including your situation.

God bless you!

[Griffin]

Thank you all so much.

[Lochaber Axe]

It is ironic that my father and I had an intellectual discussion (it wasn't that kind of talk, since right now it isn't a problem for me) about this. His and Mave's words ring true. Do not put the burden on your boyfriend to keep his hands off, for you must say no and be adamant! I know every guy here would say that when it comes to this, we are weak. God created us to be this way so that we would find wives and make babies. We are to be fruitful.

It is a mutual burden of course, but you must take charge. Testosterone makes us stupid many times. No one here can deny that.

[Omega Amen]

I am simply going to focus on your marriage question since other members have addressed your other concerns adequately.

Should I marry the man I love, (after careful thought and prayer) at only 18?

Let me tell you the measurement that my family uses to indicate when a person is ready for marriage. This is purely a practical measurement (i.e. not biblical/theological). Thus I am not saying this is what every Christian should follow, and there are exceptions.

The couple that is to be married should be able to raise a child properly, adequately, and completely on their own. (Note: I did not say if they want to raise a child or not, I am just saying they should be able to raise one.)

To me, this means the couple should be financially independent (i.e. the couple gets no money from relatives) and have a clear idea of the responsibilities that lie ahead of them. (The thought of raising a child should emphasize the serious nature of these responsibilities.)

Personally, I like this measurement since it clears up the infatuation that a couple might have before marriage, and it shows the gravity and the permanence of marriage. Marriage is beautiful, but it is also very serious and is not to be taken lightly.

Like I said, this is just my advice. (You asked for advice.) This is the measurement that I use, and under this measurement, I am not ready to get married, and most 18 year-olds I met are also not ready. Your boyfriend, you, and God should know if you are ready.

[Fsiphskilm]

Mave = Wise...

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="Lochaber Axe"] I

[Saint Kevin]

Volt, perhaps I could give a possible explanation why sex tempts some guys more that others. It just does. For some reason or another, one man's strongest temptation is another man's weakest.

We each have areas of weakness (sex, substance abuse, gossip, laziness, lust for power, etc.) and they are not necessarily the same areas of weakness as every other person. I can't exactly explain why that is the case, but is seems to me that it is.

I, for example, have no struggle with drugs or alcohol, but I do struggle with sexual temptation. This could be the exact opposite of another of my brothers in Christ. So, for you to make resisting sexual temptation merely a matter of strength of will, or self-control, well, it's not always that simple. Those of us who realize which specific sins tempt us the strongest should take special care to avoid situations that could lead to sin in those areas. Mave addressed some examples of this with regard to sexual temptation, but we can all take that same principle and apply it to our own specific weaknesses.

[uc pseudonym]

One other word of advice, but prefaced by a question. Is the boyfriend in question the same as the one several months ago (ie a member of CAA)? It might help if we could talk to him as well. Actually, I should recommend counceling with a pastor that both of you trust.

It is a mutual burden of course, but you must take charge. Testosterone makes us stupid many times. No one here can deny that.

Watch me. (In an attitude of brotherly love, of course)

Not the statement itself but all that goes with the statement. Hormones in general make humanity stupid. Nor should the "us" be absolute. As Volt has pointed out, it varies for different people. Why? See Saint Kevin's post (your explanation lightened my day. Thank you).

Self-discipline is not a lost art (yet). I don't claim to be a transcendant monk, but I can be nearly completely objective regardless of my emotions (which are, after all, only hormones in greater complexity). At the moment I'm still working on keeping pet peeves from annoying me.

[Swordguy]

Volt to answer yaour qestion i would have to say that for the most part the reason i can resist anything is thru Christ. i would also say that now i am fairly selfcontroled in the area of sexual sin. and i would have to agree with saint kevin on the fact that everyone is tepted diferent and as stated in my sig from james it is ourselfs that temp us. God is the one who gives us the streath to resist.

[Xavier249]

I just want to say that Mave you handled this very well, and out of curiosty:
Have you read that somewhere? It's sounds like the rules layed out in one of the books I read.
Which one? I don't remember.. gomen nasai.

A quote that helps me:

"failed?! you have not failed, you have gained experience, forward!" ~St. Josemaria Escriva

Basically it helps me not fall into despair when all is not as it should be.

My prayers go with you all.

[Griffin]

I will try and be dilligent about keeping my boyfriend and I out of bad situations, as well as being firm with the hands off rules. I know that it is a mutal responsibility.

[Mave]

I just want to say that Mave you handled this very well, and out of curiosty:
Have you read that somewhere? It's sounds like the rules layed out in one of the books I read.
Which one? I don't remember.. gomen nasai.

Don't sweat over it. ^^ In all honesty, everything I shared was based on my personal experience.

I can't believe I failed to mention the most important weapon: Prayer. Don't forget to ask our Lord to assist you in your battles. I know I needed it.

[Swordguy]

you are what i would call a wolf in sheep clothing.

As an athiest yjou done belive in a God right. then if being no God then why would morals would not be very inmportent now would they?
seriously why would we realy need to make sure anything we do is good i won't mater in the end now will it. so then your bacicly saying eat drink and be happy.

so why would it realy matter what she should do?

it doesn't now does it

sorry if i am coming of hard

[Omega Amen]

As and athiest i dont think it is all that important to worry to much about your spiritual fate when your earthly one seem to hold so much potential.

This is where an atheist and a Christian already differ. Christians are concerned about the everlasting life to come, which makes this "earthly" life you refer to quite small and does not hold as much importance from a Christian point of view. The "earthly" life is small and finite and thus its "potential" is smaller than the infinite happiness being with God with everlasting life.

I think it would be wise to reflect a moment, not taking into account the christian side of it.

In order for a Christian to live according to God's will, it is necessary for the Christian to take into account the "Christian side" of it. A Christian desires and believes that to live according to God's will is the best and only true wise way to live one's life. Why? Because man's wisdom will always fall short of the wisdom of God.

You have basically asked a Christian to temporarily abandon their faith in God, and you say that is a wise thing for a Christian to do. To a Christian, that makes no sense, and she would not consider it wise.

I think sex without marriage isn't a sin as long as you do it responsibly.

What is the definition of sin in an atheistic point of view? The Christian viewpoint brings God into the definition since it relates to disobeying God. But that point is not what is bothering me right now...

You say that sex without marriage can be done "responsibly." Responsible in respect to what? Where is the responsibility in that setup? Who is taking responsibility? In reality, there is no responsibility in having sex without being married. Sex without marriage is an act where the responsibility is trying to be avoided.

To be responsible means to be able to respond appropriately for the possible consequences that might occur. With sex, a child could be born, the commitment to the couple's relationship arises, increased intimacy usually results, and so much more. Marriage provides the proper framework for the couple to respond appropriately for these consequences.

People who support the notion of "responsible" sex without marriage usually mean to try to have sex and doing their best to avoid these consequences (e.g. prevent the possibility of the child, avoid commitment, avoid intimacy, etc.) All they are really proposing is how to avoid consequences, which is avoiding responsibility... which is being irresponsible.

Therefore, your thought of sex without marriage as possibly being done responsibly is a false assertion. It is actually an impossibility.

(One side note: being responsible also means being able to answer to a higher authority that might impose a judgement and penalty for the consequences of actions. From the Christian point of view, that higher authority is the Highest, God, and everyone must answer to Him.)

Also i think its obvious you have formed within your mind a good set of values and controls. Any one from a christian family probably has, now its time to decide for yourself which set of morals are more important.... your own which have been created by you throughout your life... Or the (in my opinion) rather outdated principles of the church.

The choice is really obvious for a Christian, and so the decision will be quick. Man is flawed, and God is perfect. Man's wisdom will always fall short of God's wisdom. Man on his own will have an "earthly" life that is finite, short, and will lead to eternal death. God and the salvation of Jesus Christ will lead to the everlasting life and its everlasting happiness. The Church has received the timeless and eternal principles preached by the Son of God to help follow Him and live the eternal life of boundless happiness.

I think it is pretty easy which choice Christians will decide for themselves. They will choose what God has given to the Church over the flawed set of principles of whatever man can come up with on his own.

Happiness is not only synonymous with a god fearing family.

As I mentioned before, a Christian desires the everlasting happiness by being with God, which makes any happiness that man can create on his own as being small and completely insignificant and outdated.

This desire for the true happiness and to be responsible is the reason why Lionness is seeking Christian advice on her relationship. From our love and our desire for her to experience that true happiness, we give such advice.

[Lochaber Axe]

Maybe I was a little too broad there, and I am sorry for that. Kevin made the point that I was trying to make, though that slave part is a little off. There is a difference between slave and instinct. A wolf is not really a slave to its instinct to hunt, it can pick and choose if it wants to or not. There is also a difference between desire and instinct. God created instinct, and man created desire. Desire is what leads to slavery.

On another point, a man who lives his life walking toward his death knows what is important. Which way do you think you fall into holes more: looking at your feet or looking down the road?

[Mangafanatic]

Her girl!
I just want to tell you, Lioness, that there is always forgiveness. Nothing can seperate us from the love we have in Jesus Christ. Afterall, "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just and will forgive us of all unrighteousness." I think all unrighteousness covers pre-marital sex. You responisibilty now is to make sure this doesn't happen again. We are not to use God's grace as an excuse for sin. I am in no way implying you would, but when ever you give the God's grace speech there are always those who don't see the flip side.

I will say in my opinion your view which i have only found out after your answers are a bit short sighted... dont you think this small uninteresting life... being it all you have at the moment which you can be sure of existing though your experence would be more enjoyable if you could determine for yourself your own morality. Instead of everyone just doing what we have been doing for the last two thousand years (which hasn't really gotten us any where) why dont we start living our lives... instead of living for our deaths.

If we are talking purely of pre-marital sex, I'd like to start by saying that abstaining from that particual experience is one I made for myself. Let's all play make-believe and pretend I didn't do it because God forbids it. Let's look at it from a purely logical stand point. I don't think aids, hiv, or single motherhood would be much of a way to "start living for myself". I know from your first post in this thread that you're going to say that if I suffered from any of the above it would be because I wasn't "responsible", but there is no absolutely fool-proof way to avoid any of those consequences of pre-marital sex.

[shooraijin]

Let's get back directly to some of Lioness' concerns, rather than commenting on tEchya's posts as he/she has effectively recused him/herself from the discussion.