Jesus in China
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i'm not sure whether i should post this in this thread or in the prayer request section so i suppose i will post it in both...my dad left yesterday to fly over to China for a 4-week missions trip. please be in prayer first and foremost that he will have the courage and boldness to speak the Gospel clearly and passionately. secondly, pray that he will put his full trust in God's plan and be flexible to changes in plans that may come up. finally, pray that he will be kept healthy and awake/alert, because i'm sure he's quite tired from the jet lag and such...
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
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jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
- Location: California
For those interested in getting more background information / history on the Christian Church in China, I would like to recommend the book "The Beijing Factor" by David Aikman.
I am 1/3 of the way through and am finding it informative and eye opening.
A link to a fuller description of this book is:
http://orders.koorong.com/search/details.jhtml?code=1854247158
I am 1/3 of the way through and am finding it informative and eye opening.
A link to a fuller description of this book is:
http://orders.koorong.com/search/details.jhtml?code=1854247158
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Sammy Boy - Posts: 1410
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:04 am
- Location: Autobase, Cybertron
China, as far as I understand, hasn't blossomed yet but hey, ppl are embracing the word of Christ - I'll be happy for them. My brother was at Chengdu for 2 years and it seemed that the church catered mostly to foreigners/expats. I really have no idea what's going on in the other parts of China.
Japan still has a long way to go. Period. I heard that some Japanese church leader was accused for misusing church funds or something to that effect. That isn't helping in the missionary field.
Korea may have more Christian influence but isn't the Moon cult also based there? Can't comment there since I've never been there or have many Korean friends.
Jon-jin, will pray for your father. Where will he be going?
Japan still has a long way to go. Period. I heard that some Japanese church leader was accused for misusing church funds or something to that effect. That isn't helping in the missionary field.
Korea may have more Christian influence but isn't the Moon cult also based there? Can't comment there since I've never been there or have many Korean friends.
Jon-jin, will pray for your father. Where will he be going?
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Mave - Posts: 3662
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:00 am
Mave (post: 1240899) wrote:Korea may have more Christian influence but isn't the Moon cult also based there? Can't comment there since I've never been there or have many Korean friends.
Yeah, according to Wikipedia, but what's your point? Weird cults spring up all the time in the US.
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Puguni - Posts: 1323
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:13 pm
- Location: In a place where I can wonder why good grammar doesn't apply on the internet.
This is very wonderful news to learn of:).
Hopefully Christianity can be openly practiced in China one day.
Hopefully Christianity can be openly practiced in China one day.
Some of my favorite scriptures.
Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Gabriel 9.0 - Posts: 736
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:57 pm
- Location: Classified
Mave (post: 1240899) wrote:China, as far as I understand, hasn't blossomed yet but hey, ppl are embracing the word of Christ - I'll be happy for them. My brother was at Chengdu for 2 years and it seemed that the church catered mostly to foreigners/expats. I really have no idea what's going on in the other parts of China.
According to estimates, there are around 20 million Protestant Christians in China (I do not have figures for Roman Catholics) - and that's just Christians associated with the Three-Self Patriotic Movement (a government regulated Church body that has a mixture of genuine and false Christians and teach / believe Christian theology - but are not allowed to teach certain topics such as the Second Coming of Christ - for that would imply that Marxism-Leninism is a false doctrine - which would be a critique of the Chinese communist party so this is not allowed).
Protestant Christians in non-registered churches (i.e. "underground / house churches", but the actual church buildings may be visible physically) number approximately 50 - 60 million. So combined, we're looking at around 70 - 80 million Christians.
The city of Wenzhou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou), has a large Christian population. They have a vision to send missionaries to evangelise the Middle Eastern nations. Many Christians belonging to house churches believe God is telling them to send 100,000 missionaries around the world, especially to places such as the Middle East and Africa.
Mave (post: 1240899) wrote:Korea may have more Christian influence but isn't the Moon cult also based there? Can't comment there since I've never been there or have many Korean friends.
I have heard that Korea is the country that has either the 2nd or 3rd largest amount of missionaries sent to other countries each year, so they are pretty strong I think.
Gabriel 9.0 (post: 1241020) wrote:This is very wonderful news to learn of:).
Hopefully Christianity can be openly practiced in China one day.
The relationship between Christians and the Chinese government is a bit complicated. On the one hand, the government in China does not want any religious body exerting too much influence because they are scared that they can't control those people anymore.
On the other hand, the Chinese government recognises that the Christians in China are a positive social force - they actually acknowledge that in places with large concentrations of Christians in China, there tends to be less corruption and other social ills. They also believe that the power of the West ultimately lies in its Christian heritage (not its technology or guns).
At the same time, they do not like anyone criticising the Communist party, so Christians (especially leaders) that speak poorly of the government or teach doctrines that say Christ is superior to the government (it's so hard to get away from this because this is like a core aspect of understanding God's sovereignty), will likely get persecuted. However, Christians belonging to registered churches can practise their faith freely as long as their evangelistic efforts are not too "proactive".
So in some sense Christians can worship freely, in some sense not. Definitely not "freedom" as we in Western nations understand and experience it though. I hope this information was of benefit.
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Sammy Boy - Posts: 1410
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:04 am
- Location: Autobase, Cybertron
Puguni (post: 1240953) wrote:Yeah, according to Wikipedia, but what's your point? Weird cults spring up all the time in the US.
The point was me sincerely wondering if statistics include them in the numbers as Christian. I was waiting to see if anyone could correct me; it is sad if this is true. No malice intended towards Koreans, if you assumed so. I'm happy indiscriminately for anyone who is saved. I didn't talk about christian cults in the US because we're talking about Asian countries. T
And thanks, Sammy boy, for sharing information on China. I really don't know much about the situation in China and if what you say is true, I will be thankful and keep praying for more to come to know and receive Jesus. Regardless of the situation (blossoming or not), that shouldn't stop us from continually sharing the Good News.
Edit: Wait a minute, Sammy boy....are you Ultra Magnus?
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Mave - Posts: 3662
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:00 am
Mave (post: 1241057) wrote:And thanks, Sammy boy, for sharing information on China. I really don't know much about the situation in China and if what you say is true, I will be thankful and keep praying for more to come to know and receive Jesus. Regardless of the situation (blossoming or not), that shouldn't stop us from continually sharing the Good News.
No worries, I'm glad you found the information helpful. The Church in China is growing quite rapidly, and yes, let's keep praying for them.
I mentioned a book called "The Beijing Factor" a couple of posts up (on this same thread). It contains a lot of information about the Christians in China. The book is fairly cheap (5 bucks at where I am), would be worth checking out if you wanted to find out more.
Mave (post: 1241057) wrote:Edit: Wait a minute, Sammy boy....are you Ultra Magnus?
Yes, "Ultra Magnus" is actually a trademarked name owned by Hasbro for one of their Transformers characters. Theoretically they could sue me for breach of copyright if they wanted to. So I decided to change my username to something else.
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Sammy Boy - Posts: 1410
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:04 am
- Location: Autobase, Cybertron
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king atlantis - Posts: 125
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:33 am
- Location: O_O WHY U WANA KNOW!!!1?!1
The relationship between Christians and the Chinese government is a bit complicated. On the one hand, the government in China does not want any religious body exerting too much influence because they are scared that they can't control those people anymore.
On the other hand, the Chinese government recognises that the Christians in China are a positive social force - they actually acknowledge that in places with large concentrations of Christians in China, there tends to be less corruption and other social ills. They also believe that the power of the West ultimately lies in its Christian heritage (not its technology or guns).
At the same time, they do not like anyone criticising the Communist party, so Christians (especially leaders) that speak poorly of the government or teach doctrines that say Christ is superior to the government (it's so hard to get away from this because this is like a core aspect of understanding God's sovereignty), will likely get persecuted. However, Christians belonging to registered churches can practise their faith freely as long as their evangelistic efforts are not too "proactive".
So in some sense Christians can worship freely, in some sense not. Definitely not "freedom" as we in Western nations understand and experience it though. I hope this information was of benefit.
Very true, and yes the information was very helpful.
Some of my favorite scriptures.
Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Gabriel 9.0 - Posts: 736
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:57 pm
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Wow, that's such and encouraging article. I've done some work for a missions group that did outreach to Asian nationals and even a few years ago the reception towards Christianity was very bleak. God's timing is best, though, and this is probably just the tip of the iceberg of what he has planned for China.
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