Who would win in a fight? A Ninja or a Samurai?

[Kaligraphic]

Relax, Fish, we're talking ninjas and pirates, not graboids.

[Fish and Chips]

Relax, Fish, we're talking ninjas and pirates, not graboids.

You talk about guns, you talk about Burt Gummer.

:lol:
Yes somewhere in time I do remember something like this being asked before.
To answer the question the winner would be:CU CUCUHLAIN!
I mean anyone who could defeat an entire army by his lonesome self
would be able to beat up both the ninja and the samurai without a sweat.
So let's hear it for Irish Mythological Heroes!

And not to mention a man of his word, if psychologically unstable.

[Nate]

The ninjas' use of guerrilla tactics against better-armed enemy samurai does not mean that they were limited to espionage and undercover work; that is simply where their actions most notably differed from the more accepted tactics of samurai.

In other words, ninjas knew basic weapon hand-to-hand combat as well. Hanzo Hattori, Japan's most famous ninja, is buried with the spears he used. Ever seen ninjas use spears in depictions of them? No, but Hanzo used them, so it's foolish to say ninjas ONLY know assassination/poisoning/etc.

Though typically classified as assassins, many of the ninja were warriors in all senses. In Hayes's book, Mystic Arts of the Ninja, Hattori Hanzo is depicted in armor similar to that of a Samurai.

So, an AVERAGE ninja versus an AVERAGE samurai? Honestly, it's hard to say. Both are pretty evenly matched as far as skills in combat go, if you're talking historical. Pretty much impossible to predict.

Now if you're talking romanticized "dress all in black and hide in the shadow" ninja versus a samurai, then the ninja.

[rsnumber2]

I forgot that ninjas do have invisible bazookas.

Advantage: Ninja

[uc pseudonym]

I believe I've read that many ninja were samurai with night jobs, so to speak. If this is true (I can't remember the source), that would imply the two basically have similar sets of skills, so the victory would boil down to equipment and luck. Actually, if we posit in the beginning that the two are roughly on par, then luck is probably the total answer to the question. Real fights have far less to do with skill than most would believe.

But if we're going to bring reality into this: there is no possible way to answer this question. There is not possible to calculate an average for an entire group of people.

[rii namuras]

(I believe you are correct, uc. Ninja just were a subset of the samurai class, albiet one looked down on by most "honorable" samurai, because of the tactics used by these ninja. If this is true, it would rely entirely on the individual skills of the ninja or samurai in question, because as uc said, they'd have similar skillsets, and in a one-on-one battle, with historical ninja and samurai, the same skillsets would come into play.)

(edit: or what uc said.)

(But really, I'd expect any battle would rely on the skills of the people fighting, not which "class" always pwns the other. If a level one ninja fights a level fifty-nine samurai, who do you think would win? Inversely, if a level one samurai fought a level fifty-nine ninja, who would then win?)

[Kaligraphic]

In real life, ninja denotes a profession, while samurai denotes a social class. This is not a good comparison, any more than Londoners versus Plumbers.

[rii namuras]

(Yes, but in the later stages of Japanese history (when samurai are involved, at least, the fighting type), you could become a samurai even being a peasant by being an excellent swordsman. The head and co-head of the Shinsengumi weren't born as samurai, but earned the name through hard work. Before this either couldn't happen, or didn't.)

(Most samurai, as a matter of neccessity (e.g. as they were used in battle, they kinda didn't want to die, and so they trained), were fighters, but this again leads us back to the ability of the ninja and samurai in question. If we're talking about the best ninja in town, and a samurai who was just born in a samurai family, and doesn't really know much about being a samurai in the fighting sense, the samurai would probably lose, unless some major luck was on his side.)

(But because ninja are ninja by profession and can't be "born into it," so to speak, it's probably safe to say they know what they're doing no matter what, since they had to earn their place, as the leaders of the Shinsengumi did.)

(Regardless, there's really no way to predict this, not counting incompetence on either side, but if we have the best ninja and best samurai fight head on, for above stated reasons by myself and uc.)

[Kaligraphic]

How about this: everyone in the discussion declares their choice, all the ninja votes go on one side of a large room, the samurai votes go on the other, and we have each side kill the other. Whichever side has at least one survivor wins the debate. If there are no survivors, pirates win by default.

[Tommy]

How about this?

Leave Pirates out of this.

They have guns, so it's obvious they would pwn all.

[Kaligraphic]

Okay, if there are no survivors, the people who make Hallmark greeting cards win by default.

[Raiden no Kishi]

The ninja [remember, there's no difference between singular and plural nouns in Japanese, so the plural of "ninja" is "ninja" ~ like "moose"] in The Last Samurai used crossbows, IIRC. And samurai were originally mounted archers. Both [particularly crossbows because they tend to be more compact] are more stealthy than black-powder firearms, which make loud noises, flashes of light, and puffs of smoke.

The pirates have an inherent disadvantage when attempting complex techniques and tactics due to being often inebriated [and likely untrained in such]. However, they also have an increased pain tolerance for the same reason, as well as a possible resistance to fear ["liquid courage" and all that jazz]. However, it also means they are often conveniently near to liquids of possible incendiary utility, especially that homebrewed stuff.

.rai//

[Fish and Chips]

The pirates have an inherent disadvantage when attempting complex techniques and tactics due to being often inebriated [and likely untrained in such].

I'd like to see some statistics on this please. Just because pirates are famous for their rum drinking habits, that does not suggest that they were drunkards all the time. Nor that they were not skilled in techniques, although this would vary from person to person. Remember, pirates took on other ships, often with military escourt, as well as other pirates, frequently.

[uc pseudonym]

How about this?

Leave Pirates out of this.

They have guns, so it's obvious they would pwn all.

Generally speaking, I think that comparing pirates is a pointless exercise because they lived in a significantly different time period. What is compared is technology, which has little to do with the actual skills of the individuals involved (I have yet to hear anyone claim that cavemen own everyone). But giving the ninjas guns would defeat the purpose of the entire affair.

You could argue about the differences between the concepts of both archetypes, but if so I think that ninja should be given the benefit of their mythological abilities. Because if you remove the romantic notions from any of these groups, you're really just left with a bunch of guys who kill people, generally for their own profit.

This is not a good comparison, any more than Londoners versus Plumbers.

However, I would point out that the latter group has a significant advantage in the jumping skillset, and may acquire an additional edge if the area in which the fight takes place includes mushrooms or flowers.

[Fish and Chips]

However, I would point out that the latter group has a significant advantage in the jumping skillset, and may acquire an additional edge if the area in which the fight takes place includes mushrooms or flowers.

Not to mention extensive knowledge of the London Underground.

[mitsuki lover]

We Celts win by default.Especially we Celts who happen to be ethnic Scots.Hey
even the Romans were scared of us!

[Sapphire225]

Samurai! Skills are superior!

[Cardinalman]

Ninjas because of there abiltys with speed and brains in combat.

[Kaligraphic]

You know, if this thread goes on too long, Ark might kill all the ninja and samurai just to end the debate. You don't want to be responsible for that, do you?

[Mangafanatic]

Umm. Who's most heavily armed?

I vote for him.

[Fish and Chips]

Umm. Who's most heavily armed?

I vote for him.

Being too heavily armed might actually slow you down, leaving a perfect target for someone to appear and snap your neck. With their bare hands.

[Kaligraphic]

Umm. Who's most heavily armed?

Jergath, of the Lead Arms. He's so heavily armed that his arms are literally made out of lead.

Yeah, he's a motionless sitting duck. Don't vote for him.

[SnoringFrog]

I agree with what a few other people have said ((I only read the first two pages, just to be clear)), full-out confrontation to the death, samurai would probably take it for having the skills more suited for that. But say, we start each one in seperate ends of a said city of country, give 'em a little info on their opponent, and send them to go kill each other, ninja takes it. As logn as the fight's not started "fairly" the ninja would probably take it, unless, after said fight was started "fairly" the ninja flees in apparent forfeit due to cowardice, only to kill the samurai next time he took a nap or poisoning his next meal.

We could jsut settle this the easy way. Train 5 people to be ninjas, and 5 to be samurai, and pit them all against each other.

Samurais didn't rap or wear designer glasses.

Do you have documetned proof of this? And, actually, I think rapping could prove to be an advantage against a ninja, esp. if the samurai was bad at it. Bad rapper raps badly, ninja can concentrate due to the crapiness, samurai gets into the song and his fighting becomes more of his "normal staet of mind" that Yagyu Minemori wrote about, and wins.

Idk. I'd say ninjas though.

[Shinja]

ninja's fight dirty ergo. ninja

[mitsuki lover]

Read history,Celtic battle rage was so fierce that it even scared other Celts.Heck it even intimated the famous Norse berserkers!

[Kaligraphic]

Yeah, but they crashed pretty hard, too.

[Taliesin]

The side that wins is the side that Rolf is on.