I hate confrontation...

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I hate confrontation...

Postby Sheenar » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:44 pm

Last week on Saturday (not this past Sat., but the one before) I went to the local ER to have my first cast split (the one I have now is SO much more comfortable) and, to make a long story short, they wouldn't let me bring my service dog Pebbles back into the ER with me. They wouldn't let me bring her past triage. I had to leave her in the waiting room with my friend Laura. They even told me that even a blind person has to leave their guide dog behind.
I told my organization (Canine Partners for Life) about this through our mailing list (all recipients are on the list) and have been told to file a formal complaint since what they did is illegal.
I'm going to call the hospital's Patient Relations Office in the morning to get their address and the person to address the letter to.
I don't like confrontation, but if I don't do something, the hospital will just keep doing this to people with assistance dogs/animals. I took a tech. writing class where we covered how to write these types of letters, but I don't remember anything.
Please pray that this situation gets resolved quickly and that all the hospital needs is a little education. I really, REALLY do not want to go to court over this. Hopefully, I won't have to.
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

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Postby K. Ayato » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:00 pm

I'll be praying. They shouldn't do that sort of thing to people like you who need those dogs.
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Postby bakura_fan » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:13 pm

I'll pray too. I understand the importance of such dogs and restricting where they can be just isn't right, especially in such a place as a hospital. Hope this gets resolved soon.
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Postby Kamille » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:08 pm

I'm praying for you. May God's justice be done.
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:10 pm

While I definitely see your predicament, did the hospital ever give you the reason why they won't allow dogs in the ER? I mean, I can definitely see why they have those kinds of rules in place, as some patients may be allergic to dogs, and emergency rooms have to be pretty immaculate--I know all dogs aren't filthy, but I'm sure it's easier for them overall to keep the rooms cleaner. Additionally, they have nurses to help the people that the dogs generally help. They can guide the blind patient wherever they need to go and help the disabled patients with what their dog would normally help them to do. I understand why you'd want to have the dog with you, but I think I can also see a little of their side. Are they the only hospital that does this, or are you familiar with others doing the same?
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Postby Sheenar » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:16 pm

Allergies are not a sufficient reason to bar entry to a service dog. According to the ADA, the hospital has to allow your dog with you at all times in all areas except surgical, x-ray, MRI kind of places. To bar entry is illegal.
I am going through with the complaint because what if someone has a seizure-alert dog and weren't allowed to bring it in --then they would have no warning, no way of knowing when a seizure will happen. Same for the dogs that alert to blood sugar and heart conditions.
I am doing this for the people who come there after me.
Today I got a phone call from the hospital's Public Relations Director. She said she got my message and has already initiated the complaint for me. She's looking into my records to see who saw me that day and will be talking to the ER director. She told me to give her a day or two and she would get back to me on Wednesday morning at the latest.

So cool! She was so nice! Gave me her own personal phone number at the hospital too. So I think everything should get worked out. I'll just have to wait and see what she can do.
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

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Postby Fish and Chips » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:21 pm

Sheenar wrote:According to the ADA, the hospital has to allow your dog with you at all times in all areas except surgical, x-ray, MRI kind of places.

Sheenar wrote:I went to the local ER to have my first cast split

...I'm not sure I see the problem here.
Sheenar wrote:Allergies are not a sufficient reason to bar entry to a service dog.

Knowing people can be dangerously allergic, I'd say it is.
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Postby Mithrandir » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:53 pm

Woah... Accessibility issues. I know a little about this. I can provide a little research, which it appears some of the people posting in this thread have not done.

Fish and Chips (post: 1196990) wrote:Knowing people can be dangerously allergic, I'd say it is.



However, you are not making the laws. I believe she is referring to the legal rights of persons with assistive animals. According to the department of justice ( http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/animal.htm ) you cannot do what you are suggesting. That link provides the closest precedent I can think of to support your assertion. The link there provide an FAQ with something somewhat close - only because it deals with "health and safety." Copied from site:

Q: What if a service animal barks or growls at other people, or otherwise acts out of control?

A: You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. For example, any service animal that displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be excluded. You may not make assumptions, however, about how a particular animal is likely to behave based on your past experience with other animals. Each situation must be considered individually.

Although a public accommodation may exclude any service animal that is out of control, it should give the individual with a disability who uses the service animal the option of continuing to enjoy its goods and services without having the service animal on the premises.


I don't really think it applies exactly, though.

As for the OP (Sheenar) - You can either be nice, or wealthy. If you want, there is legal precedent for a lawsuit here. Hire a lawyer if you want money, or point them toward this post from the Depart of Justice's "Enforcing the ADA" newsletter for March 2001. ( Article online with the DOJ at: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/janmar01.htm ) Quoted for emphasis:
A Maryland hospital center agreed to pay a total of $37,000 in damages to an individual who, because of her service animal, was mistakenly prevented from accompanying her son into the hospital for an MRI procedure and to another individual who was barred by hospital policy from having her service animal present in her inpatient room. The hospital agreed to modify its absolute ban on service animals in inpatient rooms.


That seems to be fairly close to what you are looking for.
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Postby Doubleshadow » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:06 pm

Praying for you.
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Postby Sheenar » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:41 pm

Fish and Chips (post: 1196990) wrote:...I'm not sure I see the problem here.

Knowing people can be dangerously allergic, I'd say it is.


But my disability according to the ADA has preeminence. Dog allergies are different from cat allergies. You have to touch a dog to get dander. Since people aren't supposed to pet Pebbles anyway, that shouldn't be an issue.

I don't plan on going to court or asking for money. I don't want that. (That is just way too much time and energy and money than I want to deal with now) I just wanted to file a complaint so people that come after me do not have this problem (not to mention the next time I go...).
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

"Since the creation of the Internet, the Earth's rotation has been fueled, primarily, by the collective spinning of English teachers in their graves."
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:27 am

Praying.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



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Postby Roy Mustang » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:59 am

I will be praying that this situation is fix and you or someone else never have a problem like this.

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Postby SnEptUne » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:05 pm

Have you talked to the hospital yet? And perhaps explain your points, not just to the nurse, but to the higher ups? It seems a little shady to sue someone in the back while they were ignorant of it.
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Postby Sheenar » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:47 am

I'm not suing anyone.
It's called a complaint --no court, no lawyers, no money. I'm just letting the hospital know I had a problem and ask them to fix it.
I've already talked to the PR lady (if you'll read my earlier post in this thread) and she's working on getting things straight. I'm still waiting to hear from her. I'll call her again on Monday and see how things are going.

Thank you guys for your prayers.
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

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Postby jaems-kun » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:22 pm

Although I'm sure its disheartening, I don't really understand the big deal of not allowing a service dog to roam with owners in the hospital. Can they do something the doctors can't?

And as a person who is allergic to dogs, I can say that I don't need to touch a dog to get a reaction from it.

But whatever, I'm sure the situation will clear up. I just hope it draws to a clean close.
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Postby Sheenar » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:58 pm

My dog doesn't roam. She's always under my direct control.
Yes, there are many things she can do (and service dogs in general) that doctors can't. If you understood the special bond that develops between a service dog and its partner, maybe you'd understand why I do not like to be separated from my dog.
But, I don't want to make this into a debate...I tend to get hot-headed about this topic, so I'm going to drop it.
I'll just update on what I hear from the hospital...
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

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Postby 12praiseGOD » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:40 pm

I'll be praying for you. oh and by the way is the dog on your avatar Pebles, if so she is soooooo cute!!!! I pray that all will go well first be GOD!!!!
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Postby Mithrandir » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:32 pm

Sheenar (post: 1198341) wrote:But, I don't want to make this into a debate...I tend to get hot-headed about this topic, so I'm going to drop it.
I'll just update on what I hear from the hospital...


Thank you for this! It's nice to have people on the site who value community. And I hope you didn't feel like my post was all about sueing them. I was more implying that you could if you wanted to, but letting the hospital know about other lawsuit results (like the one I posted) might make them more amenable to the legal requirement.

Please do let us know how things go.
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Postby termyt » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:29 am

You continue to be in my prayers, Sheenar. Thanks for taking the time to explain more about service animals, even though this thread should be about supporting you and uplifting our sister instead of debating the law and hospital philosophies on animals in the ER.
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Postby Fish and Chips » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:04 am

Yeah, okay. I can take a hint.

I'm done with this thread.
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Postby Sheenar » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:30 pm

Still waiting for a chance to call the lady back. Still hasn't called me...
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

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Postby Sheenar » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:15 am

I heard back from the PR lady this morning. She said that they had not had a service dog policy in place at the time of my visit. She talked to the CEO of the hospital and they decided to draft a service dog policy after the one at Memorial Hermann in Houston (since they are affiliated with them). So I would say that is a satisfactory resolution! :grin:

--Sheena and Pebbles (I won't have to be separated from Mom anymore!!)
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

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Postby termyt » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:56 am

Great news! I'm so happy for you (and Sheenar, too)
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Postby Mithrandir » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:16 pm

That's awesome news! I know you might not see this, but it's wonderful to see answers to prayers!
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